tonight's games in the MVC (11/19)

[RoyalShock]

1. Elgin did not decide to bring Loyola into the Valley. IIRC, a committee looked at several schools, gradually narrowing it down. Then the university presidents, I believe, visited a few and eventually voted to invite Loyola.

2. Elgin's scheduling requirements in the early 2000s led to MVC teams scheduling, and in many cases, beating power-conference teams, positioning the Valley as the premier non-BCS league for several seasons.

3. Without Elgin making a call to Marshall and lobbying on behalf of WSU, he wasn't likely to interview or become our coach.

[Cdizzle]

2. Elgin's scheduling requirements in the early 2000s led to MVC teams scheduling, and in many cases, beating power-conference teams, positioning the Valley as the premier non-BCS league for several seasons.

This is one of the great things that Elgin did. Then he undid it. I cannot understand why. There are obviously many factors, but the rise of the conference, as you mention, very closely followed that policy. So too, did the fall.

[BTbird]

2. Elgin's scheduling requirements in the early 2000s led to MVC teams scheduling, and in many cases, beating power-conference teams, positioning the Valley as the premier non-BCS league for several seasons.

This is one of the great things that Elgin did. Then he undid it. I cannot understand why. There are obviously many factors, but the rise of the conference, as you mention, very closely followed that policy. So too, did the fall.

I think the scheduling requirements got JANK'd out.

[RoyalShock]

2. Elgin's scheduling requirements in the early 2000s led to MVC teams scheduling, and in many cases, beating power-conference teams, positioning the Valley as the premier non-BCS league for several seasons.

This is one of the great things that Elgin did. Then he undid it. I cannot understand why. There are obviously many factors, but the rise of the conference, as you mention, very closely followed that policy. So too, did the fall.

There are many factors, one of which is that a few MVC programs shouldn't have needed daddy Elgin to tell them what they needed to do for success. *cough, Jankovich, cough* Secondly, the better the MVC became, the harder it was to get quality teams on the schedule. The next step to staying at a high level was getting away from becoming buy-game fodder and getting: 1. Into more exempt tournaments, and 2. quality home-and-homes, meaning more home games, more fans, more tickets sold, more money, and increasing the odds of winning those big games. That was more difficult than it sounded. It worked for a few years but became increasingly difficult. Had he kept the RPI scheduling standard, it would have meant playing a lot of road games.

[aValpo]

According to Nielsen, the Chicago media market is third largest in the US with 7,910,200 people over the age of 12. The second largest media market in the current MVC is Des Moines, at 73rd in the country, with 682,600 people 12 years or older. That's 1/12 as many people as Chicago. Wichita, at 101st in the country with 499,700 people over the age of 12, is third. So Chicago is almost 16x the size of the third largest market in the league. The Chicago media market has MORE THAN DOUBLE the number of people of the other 9 MVC metro areas COMBINED.

When it comes to eyeballs (not to mention average expendable income-- where the Chicago area exceeds every other market in the current MVC by 20% or more), adding a team in the Chicago area suddenly makes the MVC a TV-worthy league. I think it's already apparent that between the ESPN networks and ComcastSportsNet out of Chicago, the MVC is getting a lot more coverage. So what's the big, misplaced fuss about schools having to draw 6000+?

UCLA's Pauly Pavilion seated a maximum of 9200 people before its recent renovation. St. Joseph University's gym seats 4200. Loyola just recently played Tulane, whose gym seats 3600 and is rarely filled. Attendance is important, but it is not the ultimate key to success.

Other than the Neilsen numbers, this is complete nonsense.

The MVC had the TV deals you mentioned in place long before Loyola was even considered for membership. So, no, it's not getting a lot more coverage all of a sudden because of Loyola. I do believe in the future that market will pay dividends because the MVC has a nice TV base to work from, but that remains to be seen, doesn't it? It's not like the Horizon League had a TV deal at all, outside of covering it's league championship game... and they are in huge markets.

You're absolutely correct about the size of the media market and how it dwarfs the other MVC media markets. But let's be clear: Chicago is a pro market and Loyola isn't currently getting an amount of coverage in local newspapers or TV to make anyone jump for joy. Will those entities cover MVC games? Will they make the front page?

As for the attendance, people care about basketball in this league and when they see a school lacking that same commitment, they get riled up. Loyola, in most folks eyes, isn't anywhere close.

I understand it's still early and this is a new level for Loyola's basketball, but people are impatient. I think Loyola can be a great long-term addition...but they have a lot of work to do. Don't kid yourself. If Loyola remains at the level they are, it wasn't a good addition. At its current level, it's a non-factor in Chicago media and the MVC.

I may agree with your entire premise, but I have to critique your statement in bold. The Horizon League has had a pretty good National TV deal the past couple of year (thanks to Butler). This year the Horizon advertises 32 total games on the ESPN networks (includes ESPN3), while the MVC advertises 28 total games. The MVC does have a championship on CBS, while the Horizon championship is on ESPN... but the HL semi finals are televised on ESPN2, while the MVC semi final games aren't televised at all. The MVC does have a regional affiliation with Fox Sports, and the HL does not have any such deal outside of local cable coverage in individual team cities.

This year Loyola has 0 National TV games outside of the ESPN3 streaming whereas last year they at least had 1 ESPNU game. The TV scheduling was done in September of this year, so they could have distributed some Loyola games to the various ESPN networks. If Loyola was driving a big TV market, they would have been featured more often during their Horizon League tenure and would currently be featured more often with the MVC. Loyola (and UIC) were featured on ESPN2/ESPNU a fraction of the time compared to competitive teams like Valpo, Cleveland St, Wright State and Detroit. I simply can't see Loyola getting high profile contract games over the rest of the league simply because of their market. If Loyola contends for the MVC in a couple years, then yes, the large TV market may pay off... but they simply aren't competitive enough now to warrant the ESPN package games over the other MVC schools. Not sure how the MVC is going to profit from the Chicago market moreso than the Horizon League did (which admittedly is a less competitive league). Even if Loyola becomes the top-dog in the MVC (and that's a big IF), they could still be lost in the Chicago market which features Depaul, Northwestern, and UIC as college teams with a strong following of U of I... not to mention the amount of professional sports teams and minor league teams in the Chicago area and any other D1 program that Chicago area alums attended. Loyola won an NCAA championship in the 60's and made the sweet 16 in the mid 80's and are now virtually unnoticed in Chicago. It's a tough market to gain attention.

The TV deals will change in the future, of course, now that Butler has left and there hasn't been a team that has made it to back-to-back NCAA championship game appearances. Not sure about the impact of Creighton leaving on any future MVC deals.

[Wufan]

while the MVC semi final games aren't televised at all.

I don't think that's true. I watch both games every year, so unless it's just a Wichita thing, these are televised.

Locally, WSU has 12 games televised with another 18 being televised regionally or nationally.

[TheAsianSensation]

The regional Fox Sports networks have early-round MVC tourney coverage....anyone know if FS1 or FS2 is picking that up this year?

As for comparing TV contracts, Horizon has more TV appearances, but they have a lot of Friday night games (or at least they did last year). I think the Valley wants to stick to their more traditional schedules.

Still, we're a better TV draw than the Horizon. If we can't get a better TV deal, we have to shop around.

As a reminder, our contract with ESPN runs to 2015-16.

[aValpo]

Yeah the point wasn't to argue that the MVC deal was better than the Horizon deal (it's not), but it's not all that far off. I would consider regionally covered games a bit differently than national games. While Wichita may air all games on some cable TV network, so does Milwaukee and Green Bay in the Horizon. This doesn't really have much to do with a national TV deal. Also, the Horizon League conference semi-final games are national games on ESPN2, while the MVC games aren't on a national network.

The point was that the Horizon didn't put Loyola on the national TV allotment of games and the MVC decided to do the same. They aren't really controlling the TV market right now, so I don't think it's going to magically factor into a national TV deal in the future.