MVC Media Day - Tuesday, October 27

[Cdizzle]

Yes.
I sure hope not.
He's mostly full of it.

Fair enough!

Curious to see how the Redbirds play this year. Sounding like a little uptempo with more pressure defense. I think that melds well with the very athletic roster that is lacking in skill in a few places (not unskilled, just that the athleticism is a greater advantage than the skills at some positions). If that is the way they go, it is a little interesting that this will be basically the 3rd radical shift in style of play in 3 years.

Coach K said this last year in an interview: You have to coach with personnel that you have. You can't use a system that does fit or isn't working for the players you have. (paraphrased)

Coach K can say things like that. He has the Natty's to back it up. He's also dealing with pulling in Top10 players and adjusting to their particular skill sets, which is a little easier to get away with.

While that may be what is happening in Normal, I think most good/great coaches have identified how they want to play and they recruit and keep the best talent they can to play that style.

[Redbird Recon]

This will be an interesting year stylistically for ISUred. It's been a long time since we haven't had a post worth getting a touch on every possession. Odiakosa to Carmichael to Lynch has given the Birds an above average threat in the post for years. Reports of Ndiaye are positive, but I don't hear much about him making a huge impact this season. The top 2 post players (I'm excluding our forwards who fancy themselves as guards) are transfers who haven't played a minute in Normal yet.

[mathewson10]

Coach K can say things like that. He has the Natty's to back it up. He's also dealing with pulling in Top10 players and adjusting to their particular skill sets, which is a little easier to get away with.

While that may be what is happening in Normal, I think most good/great coaches have identified how they want to play and they recruit and keep the best talent they can to play that style.

a)My point is that a good coach understands that you can't put a square peg into a circular hole. It would be great/easy if every recruit fit a program to a T but that's not always the case. You have to adapt to survive.

b)WSU will play the same exact style of basketball when FVV & Baker graduate?

[mathewson10]

This will be an interesting year stylistically for ISUred. It's been a long time since we haven't had a post worth getting a touch on every possession. Odiakosa to Carmichael to Lynch has given the Birds an above average threat in the post for years. Reports of Ndiaye are positive, but I don't hear much about him making a huge impact this season. The top 2 post players (I'm excluding our forwards who fancy themselves as guards) are transfers who haven't played a minute in Normal yet.

As a positive, I will say that ISUr does a pretty solid job of team rebounding instead of relying on the bigs. DAP led the team in Avg Rebounds last year. Rebounding wasn't one of Lynch's strengths like the other two you mentioned.

Offensively I agree, it will be interesting to see how they adjust. I think ISUr will be refreshing to push the ball & get into offensive sets quicker now that there aren't slower players trying to play catch up. ISUr can also spread the floor more allowing for more dribble penetration & open shots.

About half the team is 6'7" or taller which is far better than having a 6'3" Zeisloft playing as a forward.

[Cdizzle]

Coach K can say things like that. He has the Natty's to back it up. He's also dealing with pulling in Top10 players and adjusting to their particular skill sets, which is a little easier to get away with.

While that may be what is happening in Normal, I think most good/great coaches have identified how they want to play and they recruit and keep the best talent they can to play that style.

a)My point is that a good coach understands that you can't put a square peg into a circular hole. It would be great/easy if every recruit fit a program to a T but that's not always the case. You have to adapt to survive.

b)WSU will play the same exact style of basketball when FVV & Baker graduate?

a) In this analogy the coach is responsible for the shape of both the peg and the hole. If they don't fit, it is of his own doing. When you are adapting to survive every single year, that's less 'good adaptable coaching' and more 'shooting in the dark.'

b) Fundamentally? Yes. So long as Marshall is here, WSU will play a smothering Man-to-Man GAP defense with a few zone looks, and run a methodical, efficient offense. The model isn't going to change to running zone defense all year or trying to run Havoc-lite. There may be some variances for sure, but fundamentally things will remain the same. And the results will probably remain similar as well.

[mathewson10]

[mathewson10]

a) In this analogy the coach is responsible for the shape of both the peg and the hole. If they don't fit, it is of his own doing. When you are adapting to survive every single year, that's less 'good adaptable coaching' and more 'shooting in the dark.'

b) Fundamentally? Yes. So long as Marshall is here, WSU will play a smothering Man-to-Man GAP defense with a few zone looks, and run a methodical, efficient offense. The model isn't going to change to running zone defense all year or trying to run Havoc-lite. There may be some variances for sure, but fundamentally things will remain the same. And the results will probably remain similar as well.

a)That's a great idea in a perfect world but it does not always work that way, especially as a mid-major. There are a lot more variables involved. Example: players transfer at higher rates than ever before.

b)And Marshall has used this same formula from his 30's as he does now? or has it adjusted/adapted over his years of experience?

[mvcfan]

Other attributes that Gregg looks for:

Long, athletic, high IQ players
Players who are basketball players who usually have multiple skills (shooting, driving, defense, passing, rebounding, etc.)
Players who put the team first and their stats second

I think that Gregg always thinks that he build the toughness in kids.

[Wufan]

:roll:

Yes, Marshall has used the same offense since he's been at WSU. He brought it with him from Winthrop. I don't know how long he used it there.

Here's the offense in a nut shell (and probably similar to many others): Transition break, set play, pick and roll motion. Marshall hasn't and isn't going to change that based on his personnel. Rather, as mentioned above, he recruits players that fit his system.

Let's go back over the past 7 years (year one was Thrgeon's players) and look at who has started at each position.

PG - Hannah, Ragland, Armstead, VanVleet - All of them shot well and were good floor generals. (Pretty similar to the rest of the country)
SG/SF (same in the system) - Murry, Hatch, Kyles, Baker, Cotton - strong guards that take care of the ball. Good, not great shooters. Good, not great at getting to the rim. (Some schools look for better shooters or those better at creating their own shot)
PF - Ellis, Early, Wessel - good defenders, can shoot from outside, can set a pick. (Some look for bigger players or better shooters)
C - Stutz, Orukpe, Hall, Lufile, Carter - Rim protector, physical, good hands and footwork, mature-note that these guys were all seniors before they started. (Pretty similar to the rest of the country)

So what's special? Marshall's players execute better than their opponent about 80% of the time. It's about drilling fundamentals, and micromanaging offensive schemes. You can't do that unless you recruit physical players that WANT to be pushed. He's not as concerned about height or shooting as some, but is more concerned about lack of turn overs, rebounding and screening than most.

Marshall doesn't throw wrinkles into the offense, rather he has 60+ set plays which all have about 5 options. He will however emphasize certain sets based on personnel/opponent. Transition and motion stay the same.

Muller, OTOH has not been a head coach for 20 years and might change his style early on. I imagine he will stick to one soon. It's not like Simmons is going to stop running a strict motion, or Ben Jacobson is going to move to a fast paced offense (he tried once and it was his worst record to date).

In the end, we might be saying the same thing. You don't change your philosophy based on your personnel, but you should change your emphasis. Certain plays will expose match-ups and certain players will have those match-ups depending on the personnel.

[mathewson10]

On his radio show, Dan Muller stated he voted for WSU in the preseason coaches poll; not Loyola.