Bigs in the Valley

[BirdmanBB]

Sounds like there is a lot of concern with teams this upcoming season when it comes to their big men. Right now Ech and Stutz are standouts in this area, but who do your teams have underneath? Will they be able to compete with those guys?

ISU has Carmichael, but he didn't have as an effective year as the previous one. What really accounts for this is teams keying in on Dinma Odiakosa.

Besides Carmichael we have Jordan Threloff who was impressive in our Canada trip. We might be able to play him along side Carmichael and get some good results. We also have Jon Ekey who is a pretty good trailer in the lane and also broke our freshman blocks record held by Carmichael from the previous season. After this we do have John Wilkins who is listed at guard but might be the tallest guy on our team or close to it. I think we would like to see him play bigger, but he did have the best 3pt% on our team from last year. down low should be a strong point for the birds next year which makes me believe we are going to give teams trouble who are weak in that area.

We are also waiting for the NCAA to clear John Jones who has been described as a (raw) NBA talent. If he does clear, which I hear they are expecting, it wouldn't surprise me to see him redshirted.

[SubGod22]

WSU has Stutz. He's shown what he can do outside of the Valley. Now we just need to see him do it inside the Valley. Problem is he gets called for more fouls in conference play.

Carl Hall should be our starting PF. JUCO All American gives us hope. He's a beast inside and should provide us with the energy we lose from Blair on the boards. A 6'8" beast inside. Played well in Brazil and had a double double against the National Team.

Ehimen. Our beloved African project. Great athlete who, from the sounds of things, is starting to put it together a bit. A big, athletic seven footer who should be a defensive presence this year giving Stutz some breathers. Not much of an offensive threat. Kept getting better in Brazil and had one game where I believe he had 8 points, 8 boards and 4 blocks.

James Anacreon. I don't know much about him. Described as a CF but should see most of his time at PF. Supposedly a good athlete. I believe he goes 6'7" and has a little range. A late get that I need to find out more on.

Jake White. I believe he goes 6'8" and has a little range but can also play with his back to the basket. Probably needs to add a little strength as most FR do. Could end up as a redshirt based on the previous four mentioned. If needed, could provide 10-15 minutes and not be a major liability. Seemed to hit a number of shots from the baseline in Brazil.

That's three new guys and one with little experience. And Stutz. We should be fine as I don't think any team has a ton of inside depth this year.

[MoValley John]

WSU has Stutz. He's shown what he can do outside of the Valley. Now we just need to see him do it inside the Valley. Problem is he gets called for more fouls in conference play.

That isn't just Stutz. it seems to be how the Valley was called last year. If you were a big man, and played like a big, refs blew their whistles before contact was even initiated. I saw this happen to both Stutz and Echineque. At the same time, those same bigs almost had to bleed before officials blew their whistles when a defender hacked them. As a Creighton season ticket holder, this happened all conference long. I watched Wichita State on TV several times and it appeared the same type of thing was happening to him. Bigs in the Valley will only play as well as the referees allow them. Both Echineque and Stutz were allowed to be more active in the non-con and the post season than they ever were allowed to play in conference.

Now before we here someone chimes in with "There aren't Valley refs, these are the same guys that call games in the B1G and the Big XII." I know that. But the officials do call the game the way the Valley offices dictate, and last year, the refs were very whistle happy when it came to bigs playing any defense beyond standing still and taking up dead space. If you were a big and you were active, you got whistled.

As I said, how the bigs perform this year will have a lot to do with how the league office allows them to play. This is a sad statement, but true. And if the Valley consistently penalizes bigs for simply playing like a big, recruiting bigs, for any team, will become even more difficult than it is now.

[Khan4Cats]

WSU has Stutz. He's shown what he can do outside of the Valley. Now we just need to see him do it inside the Valley. Problem is he gets called for more fouls in conference play.

That isn't just Stutz. it seems to be how the Valley was called last year. If you were a big man, and played like a big, refs blew their whistles before contact was even initiated. I saw this happen to both Stutz and Echineque. At the same time, those same bigs almost had to bleed before officials blew their whistles when a defender hacked them. As a Creighton season ticket holder, this happened all conference long. I watched Wichita State on TV several times and it appeared the same type of thing was happening to him. Bigs in the Valley will only play as well as the referees allow them. Both Echineque and Stutz were allowed to be more active in the non-con and the post season than they ever were allowed to play in conference.

Now before we here someone chimes in with "There aren't Valley refs, these are the same guys that call games in the B1G and the Big XII." I know that. But the officials do call the game the way the Valley offices dictate, and last year, the refs were very whistle happy when it came to bigs playing any defense beyond standing still and taking up dead space. If you were a big and you were active, you got whistled.

As I said, how the bigs perform this year will have a lot to do with how the league office allows them to play. This is a sad statement, but true. And if the Valley consistently penalizes bigs for simply playing like a big, recruiting bigs, for any team, will become even more difficult than it is now.

Okay, I'm a little confused. If a big made contact they were whistled for a foul, but in order to get a foul called on the other end they had to be nearly bleeding? Who was causing the contact to nearly bleed? It couldn't have been another big because they would have been whistled before contact occurrred, but that couldn't have happened because the bigs couldn't buy a foul call, unless it was from a nearly inert big getting whistled just for existing, except that the fouled big would have to be put into a coma, .... sorry seems circular.

From what I have seen, some bigs are good at getting away with physical play (O'Rear, McDermott, Durley, Blair, Weems) in league play and others tend to pick up a lot of dumb fouls. I wouldn't call them unfair fouls because they are usually doing something extra like swatting down after a block attempt and therefore going through the offensive player or dropping from a 6'9" or 6'10" height to 6'4" in order to lower a shoulder into a defender.

In the games I watched UNI-Creighton, Echinique could have been called a dozen times each game for camping in the lane. He just doesn't move out from the block at all. He also seemed to have happy feet when a pass came in low and he had to think about making a move with it. Stutz is a guy who seems to either be tuned in or tuned out. When he is locked in he is very good, when he is out of it he's gone-all arms flying everywhere, no control over his body, etc. Will Egolf was another who would just do dumb things to pick up fouls 30 feet from the rim. creekmore also had a tendency to do dumb things at the wrong times.

From my watching, it just seems some guys get more breaks than others. Don't think it's a conspiracy from the hierarchy, it may just be that they know how to work things. Kind of like how P'Allen and Jamar Howard always seemed to find their way on the wrong side of foul calls.

[valleychamp]

I love the conspiracy theories that people have with the refs in the Valley.

[Khan4Cats]

I love the conspiracy theories that people have with the refs in the Valley.

If you pay close attention, you can see the wireless ear-pieces that Sanzere and Higgins wear.

[glm38]

I love the conspiracy theories that people have with the refs in the Valley.

Yeah I don't believe in conspiracy theories either. I don't believe there are any conspiracies involved against a certain team, player, or group of players (like the Valley bigs). But the refs that call the MVC games are extremely inconsistent. And to me that is maddening. One game they "let em play" and the next they call everything. There seem to be a disproportionate amount of truly bad calls too.

I'm not sure I'm ready to anoint Stutz as one of the premier big men in the MVC? What is that based on? Just on the NIT run? Great run but in Valley play he's been extremely mediocre. I admire his talent and his potential. But so far he just hasn't put anything together. Maybe this will be his year.

As far as my Bears - the 5 is definitely our weakest spot. We do have size and some experience. But to date neither of our 2 bigs have come through consistently. Caleb Patterson has loads of potential. Great size, long arms, decent athleticism, good post moves (jump hook) and a sweet outside shot. But he really struggles on defense and rebounding the ball. Over the last 2 years he's had a few good games but also a bunch of horrible games. Rhine is a big strong post player. But he lacks offense and is fairly slow and foul prone. We Bears fans are all hoping this is Caleb's year.

[SubGod22]

There's no question that the Valley office wants post play called differently than the other conferences you see on TV all the time. Different conferences stress different things and the officials will approach the games that way. I wish they'd losen up a bit and let the bigs play a little. I do remember a game where Echineque was a non factor because of a lot of BS calls. And MVJ is correct. If they continue to call games that way in the Valley, it will be tougher to recruit quality bigs.

[WSUbballer]

Stutz has A LOT to prove.

Most are banking on him improving and probably correlating that with the predictions of WSU's spot in the standing.

[MoValley John]

Okay, let me clarify. There is no conspiracy, but the bigs were picked on last year. And it wasn't big vs. big, it was when a guard or sf would try to penetrate, the whistle blew before there was contact. And on the offensive side of the ball, it wasn't the defensive post player that was hanging on the offensive post, it was the backside defensive help. You would see the 2 or 3 literally draped on the post's back as he was going up to score. This happened almost every Valley game against Echinque and it happened to Stutz in the Valley games I saw him play.

The inconsistency and the whistle happy officials weren't penalizing post vs. post, they were penalizing the defensive post when a guard or wing worked inside. On the flipside, they would let the same guard or wing mug the post on defensive help. This isn't a poor Creighton or poor Wichita State thing, this is the way the officials called the post play in the Valley last year. During the NIT run, you could see the freedom Stutz suddenly enjoyed, same with Echenique in the CIT. It isn't a conspiracy, the officials were simply directed by the league to keep a tight leash on the bigs and they did.