WSU's fall from National prominence to "decent MVC team"

by **Aargh** » June 17th, 2012, 12:28 am

From the '60's through the '80's, WSU was a nationally prominent team. There were a few down years, but there were F4's. #1 national rankings, games between the #1 and #2 teams in the nation, and we were playing in the #1 basketball conference in the nation.

Then there was some conference realignment and WSU came out on the short end. The Valley added a bunch of schools that were just out of D2 status. In today's environment the Valley added the equivalent of Emporia State and SEMO.

That was a huge boost for the schools that were added. Those schools had immediate national attention because of their affiliation with WSU, Bradley, Drake, and Creighton.

The opposite thing happened to the existing schools. They were removed from national prominence and playing against brand new D1 schools. Recruiting, coaching hires, and the national level of their programs took a huge hit.

Now WSU fans have to listen to "you haven't done that much since we've been in your league". Well, guess what, it's your presence in our league that has cost us our national prominence. The MVC used to be the #1 basketball conference in the nation.

The schools remaining from that era are CU, BU, DU, WSU. If you're not a fan of one of those, your school has contributed to the Valley going from #1 to #10 or so.

The saddest part is that you take pride in having brought a once proud program (WSU) to mediocrity because your presence in the league diminished the quality of recruits and coaches that WSU could pursue.

Put a nationally prominent team into a league with a bunch of D2 schools and the D1 team is going to take a dive. Then the fans of the D2 schools take shots at the nationally prom,inent team for their fall from prominence.

**Sponsor**

by **shock** » June 17th, 2012, 12:35 am

Hot dahm. That is a post and a half. I will add to it with... Nope, you said it all. +1

by **carrcar** » June 17th, 2012, 6:51 am

Yeah, and it destroyed the football program.

by **shock** » June 17th, 2012, 8:33 am

Maybe

by **BEARZ77** » June 17th, 2012, 9:15 am

Well cry me a river; what a whiney bunch you Shockers are becoming. Not surprising to seee that kind of sentiment though given the daily whine-fest that goes on on Shockernet about this board and the rest of the Valley. But I do have a few questions if you can break away from your pity party long enough to try a bit of objectivity.

First why didn't WSU follow the other Valley schools who left like Cinn., Louisville, Memphis etc. I mean even SLU had the foresight to tag along and ride the coattails of those schools for years in the Metro and then Conference USA before becoming backage and getting jettisoned to the A-10 when those shools went BCS for their football programs. Why is it anyone but WSU's fault that they either were too stupid or not thought well enough to be included in those moves?

Secondly, how come teams like, Memphis, Gonzaga, Butler, and Xavier and to a lesser degree even recent Shocker slave master VCU have all been able to carve out national identities playing in conferences that were for the most part not even Valley quality. Surely if those shools were able to overcome the deadwieghts they were hung with to become consistent powers, a school like WSU who still had all those original Universities [Drake/Creighton/Drake/Bradley] in tow, their sterling national reputation[ sans of course sanctions by the NCAA for cheating] and the great facilities and fan base we all know you have because you remind us ad nauseum, should have had no problems maintaining and even advancing their previous status.

Lastly, you should be your knees thanking shools like SIU and UNI because if they hadn't been able to advance their programs to the level they did while WSU was playing cannon fodder for all the D-2 schools you mentioned for a decade, you'd probably be playing in a league that was more like the Horizon or Ohio Valley prestige wise right now. Those schools along with Creighton and occasional visits by the other "unworthies" kept the Valley at a decent level , even if not what it was previously was during the 90's and early 2000's.

Grow some balls and either get better as a program and University or don't, but quit blaming evryone else. :Violin:

by **unipanther99** » June 17th, 2012, 9:45 am

I understand the point of this post but unfortunately some people will believe some of the revisionist history being thrown around.

For starters, MSU and UNI basically replaced North Texas and West Texas State. Evansville was brought in as an 11th member, and Tulsa left shortly after that. It's not like any of these teams directly replaced Cinci, Louisville, or Memphis ---- Southern Illinois, Indiana State, Illinois State and Creighton (who left the conference for a few decades) essentially replaced those schools. Lets also not forget that WSU was brought in at a time when the conference was still trying to find it's identity after schools like Oklahoma, Nebraska, Iowa State, Kansas, and Kansas State left to form their own conference. With the exception of Drake, we were all newcomers at some point.

Also, from 1989-93, the MVC was a one bid league. The league found stability as a multi-bid league shortly after the arrival of the newest members. Lets also remember that UNI, MSU, and Evansville didn't hire Scott Thompson, WSU did. With the shift away from FBS football, the MVC became a good mid-major basketball conference. WSU may feel stuck, but you decided to drop football way before any of the schools you are blaming for your situation were even on the radar.

by **jwa123** » June 17th, 2012, 11:12 am

AARGH, go ahead and leave. Fine by me.

by **TheAsianSensation** » June 17th, 2012, 5:35 pm

No, it's the fault of WSU, Creighton, Bradley, and Drake for messing up and getting caught at the programs shuffled out in the round of realignment that cost the MVC.

It's not the fault of the 6 schools (and other schools that came in) that the Valley fell. The power teams that left are the schools to blame. Blame Cincy. Blame Oklahoma A&M. Blame the fact there's been 8 schools in the last 60 years in the MVC who joined the league and then promptly left within two decades. Blame the elder 4 statesmen (Creighton/WSU/Drake/Bradley) for being unable to build a stable league or for not getting out with the other teams as they left.

The truth is that while, in the last 15 years, the Valley has been the most stable conference in the country....in its previous 85 it's been anything but.

by **Hawkfan** » June 17th, 2012, 8:17 pm

What most Shocker fans neglect to mention is that their "rise" to national prominence and the bulk of any successes that were had there on the hardwood coincide with their becoming one of the NCAA's most penalized schools in NCAA history.

http://www.ncaagridirongab.com/2011/03/09/10-most-corrupt-ncaa-athletic-programs/

I'd hope that any current and or future successes there can be accomplished within the rules.

by **Ricardo del Rio** » June 17th, 2012, 9:42 pm

Aargh wrote:From the '60's through the '80's, WSU was a nationally prominent team. There were a few down years, but there were F4's. #1 national rankings, games between the #1 and #2 teams in the nation, and we were playing in the #1 basketball conference in the nation.

Then there was some conference realignment and WSU came out on the short end. The Valley added a bunch of schools that were just out of D2 status. In today's environment the Valley added the equivalent of Emporia State and SEMO.

That was a huge boost for the schools that were added. Those schools had immediate national attention because of their affiliation with WSU, Bradley, Drake, and Creighton.

The opposite thing happened to the existing schools. They were removed from national prominence and playing against brand new D1 schools. Recruiting, coaching hires, and the national level of their programs took a huge hit.

Now WSU fans have to listen to "you haven't done that much since we've been in your league". Well, guess what, it's your presence in our league that has cost us our national prominence. The MVC used to be the #1 basketball conference in the nation.

The schools remaining from that era are CU, BU, DU, WSU. If you're not a fan of one of those, your school has contributed to the Valley going from #1 to #10 or so.

The saddest part is that you take pride in having brought a once proud program (WSU) to mediocrity because your presence in the league diminished the quality of recruits and coaches that WSU could pursue.

Put a nationally prominent team into a league with a bunch of D2 schools and the D1 team is going to take a dive. Then the fans of the D2 schools take shots at the nationally prom,inent team for their fall from prominence.

As soon as I read your post, I knew there was gonna be trouble.

I am surprised Valley Chump has not chimed in.