WSU trip to Brazil

[Haha]

They lost two games in Brazil how troubling.

Oh "butthurt" here is how we know Marshall played everybody:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lREZ4Dlm ... r_embedded

About 6 seconds into the interview, but who knows how reliable that is. Man get some cream for that or something.

[Aargh]

Again, Marshall played everybody. Even Fr RS walkons got significant minutes.

How do we know this? Are there box scores available somewhere that show number of minutes played? Or did you just read it on Twitter (I think that has gotten some in here in trouble in the past...)

Between WSU's and IlSU's losses, I'm not sure what to think... It does seem a little concerning though....

These tweets are from someone who represents himself as a Shocker fan who went to Brazil to see the team and is reporting from the games. So far. the tweets agree with all of the official info WSU has published at goshockers.com. The tweets coincide with the times the games are played and the timing of the tweets during the game seems in line with the flow and timing of a basketball game.

As I've said, tweets are not confirmed reports and you can choose to disbelieve them if you wish. I choose to believe them.

When the lineups on the court include Fr walkons who aren't even on the official roster yet, because school hasn't started - that's pretty much playing everybody. Anacreon is not getting minutes. He's not on the trip because he wasn't on campus in time. Stutz is getting limited minutes because re retweaked his sprained ankle the day before the team left.

[MoValley John]

Reality check time. 10 Points.

1. Nobody is butthurt.
2. Wichita State played everyone on the roster.
3. Regardless of being an exhibition, no matter how he paints it, Gregg Marshall HATES to lose.
4. Gregg Marshall, as much as it hurts him, will put winning aside and put his team in a position to lose in an exhibition. Learning as a team is bigger than winning.
5. The Brazilion National Team would beat every team in the Valley. Even teams with Odum on the roster.
6. Losing to Team Brazil and pointing to it being the day before final cuts is a cop out.
7. These games are meaningless.
8. As fans and not coaches, there is little to take from these games, good or bad. That is one step ahead of Summer pick up games where you can take nothing from them.
9. Gregg Marshall knows what he is doing and these games are not indicative of how the Shockers will play this season, in there own country, against familiar competition and by college rules.
10. The trip will be a great learning opportunity for the Shockers, the W's and L's are not important.

Shocker fans need to understand that two losses in exhibitions will bring out vitriol from all fanbases. Shocker fans should also admit that had UNI dropped a game, they would have been all over it. It doesn't mean that Shocker fans are butthurt, it means they are participating in the decades old practice of riding the opposing fanbase. Other fans "riding" Wichita State aren't butthurt, either, they are just giving Shockers a dose of smacktalk. Creighton fans need to be prepared for a loss or two in the Bahamas, if it happens, fans of other teams will pounce. Winning or losing in the Bahamas will have no indication on how the Bluejay season will unfold, it will simply give the team a little extra time to learn how to play together and give coaches more time to evaluate weaknesses and areas in which the team needs to improve.

For the record, I love smack talk! But this is a "smack-free" environment of which I can respect. That said, a little dogging on the Shockers is expected after starting the exhibition trip 0-2. Moreso, considering how some Shocker fans were riding UNI for having such an "inferior" trip to Brazil, a little ribbing is in order. It all means nothing.

[Haha]

Reality check time. 10 Points.

1. Nobody is butthurt.

how do you know this? probably got it from twitter...geez

[MoValley John]

Reality check time. 10 Points.

1. Nobody is butthurt.

how do you know this? probably got it from twitter...geez

Nice work!

I thought Missouri State fans were the only ones that believed everything they read on Twitter.

Sorry, MSU fans, it was a cheap jab, I shouldn't have done it. It was funny, though.

I'll make it up to all you MSU fans by promising that my next barb will be directed at Indiana State and Odum.

[Aargh]

If Marsahll was really trying to win, he wouldn't have a lineup of 3 Fr, Orukpe, and Carl Hall on the floor - ever.

That's an "evaluation" lineup and a "get some game time" lineup for players who don't have that (or much of it) at WSU.

It's my understanding that Marshall is coaching the players on the floor as if he was trying to win with them on the court. The new guys get a chance to learn how Marshall reacts and interacts in game situations.

The good news for WSU fans (and bad news for the rest of the Valley) is Carl Hall's double-double against what was reported to be a very big and very physical lineup that's made up of players older than most college players. I'm going to make a wild guess that the Brazilian national team's front court is probably better than what WSU will see in league play. This is an indication that Hall is capable of going for a double-double in a lot of games. For those who want to cut-and-paste this comment later, I said "capable" - I did not say "will".

To be a real MVCFans poster, I should claim that this gives Hall the early lead of POY, but I'm not going to do that. I'm not even going to take advantage of the opportunity to make an Odum jab here. Oops - I guess that qualifies as one.

[SubGod22]

I will say that I'm glad the Shockers are being pushed by the competition down there. I believe it'll help them see what they need to do to better themselves to win games like these. For the youngsters, it gives them a taste of what kind of level they have to play at game in and game out. And I hope that next time the Shox leave the country to play these games that they find a place that will push them again. We've been to Canada, and outside of the extra practice time, I don't believe the competition did anything of much value for the team.

I'd compare it to the cupcake portion of our schedules. There's no value at all in playing a bunch of teams like Alcorn State. I understand the need for buy games, but there are better cupcakes out there that can push you more. Same with these overseas exhibition games. If a bad team or two is scheduled, so be it. But hopefully the other 2 or 3 games will be against teams that can at least challenge you, if not beat you. I think there's more to learn from as a player and a coach being in those situations. We all know what kind of play shows up with it's a 40+ point game. Nothing is being learned there except bad habits.

These are just my opinions. I'm sure there is some value that comes from playing teams that have no real business being on the same court as you. But I believe there is more that comes from a challenge.

[MoValley John]

All of this needs to be tempered. You can develop just as many bad habits from playing teams that are better than you as you can develop bad habits by playing inferior teams. Did Carl Hall score a double double because when overmatched, he played outside of the framework of what the team needed to work on? I don't know, neither does anyone outside of Gregg Marshall. These games are instructional and the outcome doesn't matter. How a team reacts to better competition is very instructive, at the same time, these games still can cause players to develop bad habits. Bad habits are developed by the player, not the competition. I think that Gregg Marshall is very aware of any bad habits being exhibited on the floor and is identifying them in every exhibition. He would do the same against patsies.

An outsider cannot judge the benefits of an exhibition based on the competition, the competition was selected for specific areas in which the coach wishes to work. Playing tough competition may be exactly what Marshall wants to work on, he might want his team to be tougher, to play tougher and to see how they react to adversity. Wichita State is loaded with veteran players and Marshall simply might want to push them and see how they react. At the same time, playing patsies can help a team work on offensive and defensive schemes, develop team chemistry and build confidence. That very well could be Jacobson's goal. UNI has a bunch of new guys stepping into new roles, and Jacobson might want to have them work within the framework of his system, make sure everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing and where they are supposed to be on the floor without too much impedence. Who knows?

Keep in mind, a young team, with a bunch of new players might learn very little if every game they get drubbed on and have little opportunity to work on ball rotation, positioning and plays. It can also destroy their confidence. I can't speak for why each team did, and is doing in Brazil. These were the coaches decisions, I give them credit for knowing what they wanted to achieve. Good coaching will identify goals and select exhibitions in accordance with their goals. Good coaching will also be able to identify any potential bad habits against any competition, good or bad.

[WSUbballer]

[quote="DoubleJayAlum"][quote="Aargh"]Again, Marshall played everybody. Even Fr RS walkons got significant minutes.[/quote]

How do we know this? Are there box scores available somewhere that show number of minutes played? Or did you just read it on Twitter (I think that has gotten some in here in trouble in the past...)

Between WSU's and IlSU's losses, I'm not sure what to think... It does seem a little concerning though....[/quote]

Seriously?

[MoValley John]

I get what you are saying, but it still isn't all that difficult. Face it, regardless of how little these teams are enamored with the likes of playing US college teams in exhibitions, these Brazilian teams need the exhibitions just as badly as the US college teams. They need competition and the US college teams need competition and there isn't an abundance of teams outside of US college teams willing to travel that far simply to play a few meaningless exhibitions. And with the NCAA limiting these trips to once every four years, it limits the pool that much further.

In the end, a coach may not be able to pick exactly A, B and C, but he still can schedule teams within a certain talent criteria. The US teams do bring money, but that isn't that big of a deal. A Croatian team would bring zero dollars to the table. The biggest obstacle isn't money or the like or dislike of these teams playing US college teams, it's timing. If a college team is in Brazil at the same time a Brazilian team is looking for an exhibition, they can usually secure the game. With the teams planning trips months in advance, that makes scheduling a little difficult but not a giant task.