NCAA to ban schools from post-season based on APR

[Haha]

Yeah, we might have to just settle for kicking your butts like we have the past 20 years.

WSU is 15-9 against MSU last 10 seasons. Maybe you meant to say between 1991 and 2001 or something like that?

[Aargh]

SWOMO better get it turned around or they won't be able to win another CIT championship.

Yeah, we might have to just settle for kicking your butts like we have the past 20 years.You really need to have actually accomplished something yourselves before you try to diss another program. We've been a better program from the minute we stepped in the Valley and I don't see that changing other than the occasional blip, just like the last 20 years.

Bear77, you are just begging for a slap-down with that post. It just screams, "please, please, beat me up because I run my mouth without facts or thinking about what I'm saying".

I really prefer not getting into pi$$ing matches with people whose logic is as flawed as yours. I am confident your idea of reality is whatever you have decided it to be, and people like that are typically uneducable.

It's good you weren't a basketball player at MSU. That APR would certainly be even lower had you been one.

[BEARZ77]

I would have let it go, but if yoiu insist. Bears lead the series 30-25, and since entering the MVC have finished higher 15 of 21 seasons, been to I more NCAA tourney, been to 8 MVC Tourney Championship games to 0, won 1 of those which WSU has not, made a sweet 16 appearence , made 8 NIT appearences to WSU's 5, and most importantly went 2-0 vs WSU last year and won the MVC.

Like I said, it is what it is. Several MVC schools have much greater accomplishments in the time we've been in the league, and I fully respect their accomplishments, but WSU isn't one of them. I think our's is an ok record, but nothing exceptional, just better than WSU. I agree with AndShocks last points , so to me it's nothing to carry further.

[BEARZ77]

Enough facts for ya Aargh; I'm not sure if that's enough to undo my "UNEDUCABLENESS" ,but it does prove my point.

[Haha]

hey bear

You ignored my post...

last 10 years, WSU is on top.

-WSU 15-9
-WSU 1 NIT championship (you are the one that started including NIT's as achievements)
-1 sweet 16 appearance (does MSU have an appearance in NCAA last 10 years? since we can choose to stop at 20 for your benefit, I choose to stop at 10 instead for mine)
-tied on conference championships (1 each)

SO AGAIN MAYBE YOU MEANT TO SAY BETWEEN 1991 AND 2001. I guess if you really want you could say last year, that would be true and acceptable. However you said MSU has been kicking WSU's azz for last 20 years and that is just wrong and ignoring facts.

BTW, getting to and losing the the MVC championship game isn't an achievement and WSU has done that just recently, not zero like you suggested.

[Snaggletooth]

Enough facts for ya Aargh; I'm not sure if that's enough to undo my "UNEDUCABLENESS" ,but it does prove my point.

WSU (MSU)
NCAA Tournaments: 8 (6) - ADVANTAGE WSU

Best Finish WSU: Final Four, Elite 8, Sweet 16 -- ADVANTAGE WSU
Best finish MSU: Sweet 16

NCAA Records WSU: 8-9 -- ADVANTAGE WSU
NCAA Records MSU: 3-6

MVC Regular Season Championships: 6 (1) - ADVANTAGE WSU
MVC Tournament Championships: 2 (1) - ADVANTAGE WSU

NIT Record WSU: 8-11
NIT Record MSU: 9-8 -- Advantage MSU

NIT Appearances: 11 ( 8 ) - ADVANTAGE WSU
NIT Champions: 1 (0) - ADVANTAGE WSU

CIT Champions: 0 (1) - ADVANTAGE WSU

APR SCORES - ADVANTAGE WSU

[Aargh]

Enough facts for ya Aargh; I'm not sure if that's enough to undo my "UNEDUCABLENESS" ,but it does prove my point.

Ah, I see, the entire history of MSU's existence as a D1 school counts, but only the history of WSU since MSU became a D1 school counts.

In the last 10 years, WSU is 15-9 against MSU, but that doesn't count - we can only use MSU's entire history in D1 and a selected period for WSU.

There is not a single WSU fan who will not say that WSU was really bad the entire decade of the '90's. You're using MSU's success against WSU 11 - 20 years ago as justification that MSU is "clearly the better program". You're ignoring what's going on at the schools in the current era.

Here are some recent Valley results:

2003 WSU 3rd - 10-6, SMS 10th - 0-0 Did MSU have to forfeit games? This is from Kenpom.
2004 WSU 2nd - 12-6, SMS 5th - 9-9
2005 WSU 2nd - 12-6, SMS 5th - 10-8
2006 WSU 1st - 14-4, MSU 2nd - 12-6
2007 MSU 3rd - 12-6, WSU 6th - 8-10
2008 MSU 7th - 8-10, WSU 9th - 4-14
2009 WSU 6th - 8-10, MSU 10th - 3-15
2010 WSU 2nd - 12-6, MSU 7th - 8-10
2011 MSU 1st - 15-3, WSU 2nd - 14-4

MSU finished ahead of WSU 3 times in 9 years.

2003 - 2011
Average finish in the league:
WSU: 3.67
SMS/MSU: 5.56

W/L in the Valley, 2004 - 2011:
WSU - 84-60
SMS/MSU - 77-67

If you are basing your statement that "MSU is clearly the better program" on MSU's entire history in D1, then I get to base WSU's status as a program on their entire history in D1. I'm going to trot out multiple S16's, E8's, a F4, multiple first-team AA's, Number 1 national rankings, and on and on.

I don't think it's appropriate to evaluate WSU's program on the fact that they have some outstanding history. I also don't think it's appropriate to evaluate the status of MSU's program on what a single coach did in the 20 years ago range. Oh, plus their recent first-ever regular season championship.

If MSU is clearly the better program, why does MSU have to fire one coach and the very successful replacement gets out of Springfield at the absolute first opportunity for a potential coaching suicide gig at Tennessee.

If MSU is clearly the superior program, why is MSU hiring unproven assistant coaches to fill coaching vacancies, while WSU hires coaches with proven success in D1 and in the NCAA's to fill coaching vacancies.

SMS was better than WSU 15 or 20 years ago, but that doesn't make them the better program. If you have to base your argument on that, then I believe your logic is a bit flawed.

[Aargh]

Enough facts for ya Aargh; I'm not sure if that's enough to undo my "UNEDUCABLENESS" ,but it does prove my point.

Ah, I see, the entire history of MSU's existence as a D1 school counts, but only the history of WSU since MSU became a D1 school counts.

In the last 10 years, WSU is 15-9 against MSU, but that doesn't count - we can only use MSU's entire history in D1 and a selected period for WSU.

There is not a single WSU fan who will not say that WSU was really bad the entire decade of the '90's. You're using MSU's success against WSU 11 - 20 years ago as justification that MSU is "clearly the better program". You're ignoring what's going on at the schools in the current era.

Here are some recent Valley results:

2003 WSU 3rd - 10-6, SMS 10th - 0-0 Did MSU have to forfeit games? This is from Kenpom.
2004 WSU 2nd - 12-6, SMS 5th - 9-9
2005 WSU 2nd - 12-6, SMS 5th - 10-8
2006 WSU 1st - 14-4, MSU 2nd - 12-6
2007 MSU 3rd - 12-6, WSU 6th - 8-10
2008 MSU 7th - 8-10, WSU 9th - 4-14
2009 WSU 6th - 8-10, MSU 10th - 3-15
2010 WSU 2nd - 12-6, MSU 7th - 8-10
2011 MSU 1st - 15-3, WSU 2nd - 14-4

MSU finished ahead of WSU 3 times in 9 years.

2003 - 2011
Average finish in the league:
WSU: 3.67
SMS/MSU: 5.56

W/L in the Valley, 2004 - 2011:
WSU - 84-60
SMS/MSU - 77-67

If you are basing your statement that "MSU is clearly the better program" on MSU's entire history in D1, then I get to base WSU's status as a program on their entire history in D1. I'm going to trot out multiple S16's, E8's, a F4, multiple first-team AA's, Number 1 national rankings, and on and on.

I don't think it's appropriate to evaluate WSU's program on the fact that they have some outstanding history. I also don't think it's appropriate to evaluate the status of MSU's program on what a single coach did in the 20 years ago range. Oh, plus their recent first-ever regular season championship. The only regular-season champion in recent memory to not get an invite to the NCAA's.

If MSU is clearly the better program, why does MSU have to fire one coach and the very successful replacement gets out of Springfield at the absolute first opportunity for a potential coaching suicide gig at Tennessee.

If MSU is clearly the superior program, why is MSU hiring unproven assistant coaches to fill coaching vacancies, while WSU hires coaches with proven success in D1.

SMS was better than WSU 15 or 20 years ago, but that doesn't make them the better program. If you have to base your argument on that, then I believe your logic is a bit flawed.

[MoValley John]

Great arguments, but they are opinions, and both opinions are just that, opinions and quite subjective. The only fact I know is that both schools are superior to IUPUI.


And the Celtics.

[valleychamp]

wow, this went bad right away. Maybe the mods could clean this up a bit, or split it into a different thread.