The debate for third place is open.

[valleychamp]

I am also interested that aargh already views CU and WSU basically as automatic locks for the top 2 spaces. Personally, I thought WSU would absolutely have run away with everything last year with the talent and experience that they had. But they didn't. Why should I be believe that they are a lock for the top 2 this year, when that loaded team last year did not exactly perform up to most people's expectations?

And this year, they have to replace Durly, Ellis, Hatch, and Blair. That is a lot of talent and size to replace. They have a lot more experience coming back than a team like MSU because they were certainly a much deeper team, but they are losing as much, if not more talent than MSU is. WSU will have to rely on some new guys to win just as MSU will, IMO. And MSU has the POY coming back.

[Khan4Cats]

O'Rear is gone, but unlike his going down late last season there will be more bodies to help out and a new game plan that doesn't involve him. I won't predict that UNI will finish 3rd (or better), but I certainly don't think it's out of the question. I loved O'Rear's passion, but I think Kwadzo will be far more difficult to replace.

The O'Rear injury and UNI falling apart has no effect on this season. I've said elsewhere that Ben will play accordingly and they'll be a solid team this year. I do think they have a better shot at 3rd than MSU. I'm still not convinced that there's enough talent around Weems to make up for what they lost. Put that with a new coach and I think they struggle a bit this season.

While UNI lost 8 of it's last 10 games I think it is a little overstating to say that they fell-apart or were bottom feeders. Only 1 of the 8 losses was by double figures (the blow-out loss to WSU), but even that wa sonly our third-worst point-differential loss of the year, the other two we had O'Rear for.

Each of the other games was a close contest in the last few minutes where UNI had chances to win but didn't finish it off. Not too different from most of UNI's season as we rarely blow teams out or get blown out. We just didn't have whatever it was that O'Rear provided that was enough to get us over the finish line in those games.

Whether we have that toughness this year, no one yet knows.

[2livewu]

WSU certainly has to be included in this discussion. While I believe they have a lot of upside (more so than any other Valley team except CU), upside doesn't give you wins.

I can see WSU anywhere from 1-4....maybe 5 if they got hit with some injuries.

I cannot see CU anywhere but 1 or 2. ISUB is a lock for the top 3. Tough call all the way around.

[SubGod22]

I am also interested that aargh already views CU and WSU basically as automatic locks for the top 2 spaces. Personally, I thought WSU would absolutely have run away with everything last year with the talent and experience that they had. But they didn't. Why should I be believe that they are a lock for the top 2 this year, when that loaded team last year did not exactly perform up to most people's expectations?

And this year, they have to replace Durly, Ellis, Hatch, and Blair. That is a lot of talent and size to replace. They have a lot more experience coming back than a team like MSU because they were certainly a much deeper team, but they are losing as much, if not more talent than MSU is. WSU will have to rely on some new guys to win just as MSU will, IMO. And MSU has the POY coming back.

Fair enough. We did lose a lot of talent. But we return as much or more than most. I think there's only one new guy that has to produce for us and that's Carl Hall. JUCO All-American makes many of us feel better about that. Our back court should be just fine. We return Ragland, Williams, Murry, Kyles and Smith. Stutz is the only returning big that played significant minutes. Ehimen continues to progress and it sounds like he made some big strides in Brazil. We need 10-15 minutes from him and either White (FR) or Anacreon (JR). Those are the only questions really.

Other frosh who showed quite a bit in Brazil but may redshirt are Ede (6'6" SF), Wessel (6'5" SG/SF/PG), Cotton (6'2" PG/SG) Baker (6'2" PG/SG). Anacreon is supposed to be a player but I know little about him. I have little doubt that White could play 15 minutes a game and help the Shox this year. he could also end up redshirting if Anacreon is as advertised. The others all played well this summer and could contribute, but we have so many guards in front of them that it's likely most will redshirt. Ede may play. So yes, there are a few questions, but I don't think they're that big. Post depth is the only possible concern and that's legit. But we have the bodies inside and the perimeter talent to be quite good this year. Outside of Creighton, right now I don't see any of the other teams that on paper should be in the top 2.

But then again, I could just be too biased as a fan

[valleychamp]

And for the record, I'd have WSU in my top 2 at this point.

But I would not start a thread and say "the race for 3rd is open" because the top 2 are untouchable...

[SubGod22]

And for the record, I'd have WSU in my top 2 at this point.

But I would not start a thread and say "the race for 3rd is open" because the top 2 are untouchable...

That's a fair point. I was a little uncomfortable with it as well, but considering most seem to be of the belief that CU and WSU are going to fight it out for first, I get it. But it comes off a little worse than it was meant to be I believe. Aargh isn't a bad poster who tries to cause problems.

I will say that starting with this week and continuing over the next few, the board voting is going to be interesting.

[Red]

I'm okay presuming CU and WSU will be at the top of the conference, but can someone explain to me what the Aces have done to be getting the respect they are based on comments here and in voting?

[Aargh]

WSU is getting pre-season press as a potential top-25 team. A lot of other pundits and sports journlists are putting WSU in their top 30. WSU will be the pre-season favorite based on what they are returning. The media types seem to look at that more than looking at what team is losing.

I think WSU is being heavily overrated, because replacing 4 Sr's - and none of them t the gurd position, is troubling. I personally think CU has the talent to run away and hide this year. Front court depth is the only possible weakness I can see at CU.

The media is going to pick WSU to win the conference, and I think most knowledgeable fans are going to pick CU. There have been several posts on this board that say CU and WSU are the top 2.

I think a thread about picking the 3rd place team is legitimate. It's not politically correct, and it may be inaccurate, but CU and WSU are going to be the teams at the top when the pre-season picks come out in the media.

If this is news to anyone, I apologize for being the guy to break this news to you. There are already some top-XXX lists coming out that make it pretty clear that CU and WSU are just about media locks for #1 and #2. The appearance right now is that pre-season predictions will have a sizable gap between 2nd and 3rd.

If anyone here wants to put WSU and CU into the discussion for 3rd place, you can certainly do that. Just because I didn't in the first post in the thread doesn't mean those schools can't be discussed for a 3rd place finish.

3rd place seems to be the most interesting spot for discussion right now.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I've got WSU number one. The MVC is still a guard oriented league and I like WSU's group better than anybody else's right now. I wrote early in the summer that the loss of all of the big guys will be hard for WSU to absorb, but I still fell that they are the front runner.

As for my Jays, I just don't know what to think of our guards. Young is more of a two-guard playing PG and the other two (Manigat and Jones) were not consistent performers game to game. None of the three were very good passers either, resulting in a lot of missed opportunities down for Echenique and McDermott. I really like the addition of Chatman as it gives us a true PG on the roster and McDermott has already said he wants Chatman and Young on the floor at the same time.

Ultimately though, I think Creighton will be even better next year (2012-2013) than they will be this coming season as Young is the only senior on the roster.

[SubGod22]

Chatman is a player and is going to do wonderful things for CU. I like Young and Manigat as well. Not sure on your post depth, but we have the same questions about us here in Wichita. I do think it sucks that we're going to have to face Chatman at least 8 times in the next 4 seasons. He's still one I'd have loved to see pick WSU. Sounds like he showed a little of what he can do in the Bahamas as well.