An Explantion For WSU's Beating Expectations

[shoxrox]

i agree , wsu recruits athletes, but in reality they dont recruit any better basketball players than isu or ill. st, and creighton definately recruits better than wichita, wichita is the most over-rated valley team , they always under-achieve???? NOOO , we always over -hype em, theyve never been that good and wont be any different this year

Mr. Bowden,

The Valley has changed quite a bit since you left the league a decade ago. It literally looks like, based on your incredible analysis, that you graduated, stopped following the league for 10 years, and just yesterday, you decided to give your thoughts. Were you at last year's game in Omaha where WSU's inferior athletes drubbed Creighton by 21? Did you know that WSU won the league last year with a 16-2 record? I'm guessing not or at least I hope not, which would explain your painful ignorance.

[shoxrox]

I applaud how well WSU is doing this year especially after the injuries but can someone tell me, did anyone on this board ask for this explanation? You would have had to know this would start some flaming.

I hear you but I think this thread stemmed from a UNI poster's attack on the way WSU recruits and beats them. It probably should have just stayed in the WSU-UNI thread, but that's where it came from.

[glm38]

Pretty good initial analysis of Marshall's recruiting philosophy. Especially from someone that thinks Early is a better bb player than Doug Mc.

But regardless of whether you recruit athletes with low bbIQ and hope to develop them or recruit kids with bbIQ and hope they mature physically into better athletes - it's all a crapshoot when you are talking 18 to 20 year old kids isn't it? All coaches even Marshall make blunders. To me unless you can recruit the cream of the crop like a Kentucky or a Duke the smart thing to do is recruit both types.

On the opposite end of the spectrum with what seems to be Marshall's philosophy - would he have recruited a player like Doug Mc or an Adam Leonard ?(just a couple that come to mind). Maybe I'm wrong about that as I don't follow the Shox recruiting. But if you are mostly recruiting pure athletes you are going to miss out on some great players.

Better athletes don't always win out in the Valley. UNI's team of 3 and 4 years ago was the class of the Valley and it was far from the most athletic team. Same with MSU's team of 2 years ago.

Marshall is definitely on a roll lately. Especially in regards to recruiting. Props to him and WSU for that.

[C0|db|00ded]

I don't know if HCGM would have recruited SoW. Jake White was a Parade All-American out of HS, but he has been struggling to keep up with the pace that coach likes to run things. Coach likes his recruits to have long arms, jump high, be lightening quick, and carry an attitude (swagger if you will). Unfortunately for white guys, not too many of them fit that profile.

Evan Wessel was signed in hopes of nabbing his buddy Perry Ellis. When that fell through, most thought Evan would be transferring. However, through hard work and determination, Wessel has earned a spot on this team. He is still a bit slow, but he shoots the rock well and plays balls out like nobody else.

Ron Baker was an all-star in 3 sports in HS and was the football team's QB. He has an unbelievable shot, is tough as nails, and can jump very well for a white guy (he slammed it home with authority on a breakaway this year). He is also a VERY good on ball defender (for a white guy).


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[BEARZ77]

The thing I find myself wondering about , is why we didn't see all this posturing from the fan bases of SIU, ISUr, UNI or even until recently Creighton when those teams had their run at the top of the league in the 90's and early 2000's. Clearly WSU is on a solid roll right now and is one of the top 2-3 teams in the Valley over a 3 year period. But that hardly surpasses and actually to this point falls short of what we saw from the aforementioned teams during their runs. Yet I don't recall post after post about how they recruited better, coached better, had insights beyond the other Valley schools, or were blatantly miscast as a Valley member. They were simply the best the Valley had to offer for that 3-5 year period , nothing more or less. I'm sure there was a degree of trash talking around individual games and results, but an overall projection of them being anything more than simply a very good program on an extended period of success never seemed to be part of the daily assault . I remember the SIU fans getting their fair share of chatter back about the overhyped Shaw, but again I don't recall much pissing and moaning about how they were the victims of jeolous attack and treated so differently than all other Valley fan bases because they had a good couple years.

I think it's great to celebrate one's successes but it can be done w/o disrespecting other league members.The fact WSU posters have repeatedly belittled the accomplishments of the UNI/CU and other MVC programs over a period of time when they were clearly the better programs, makes it difficult to understand why any other league member would want to acknowledge similar success by WSU now. And while I know it's not all WSU posters, I've always felt if you fail to police your own, you suffer the consequences of their actions equally as most of us have at various times. JMO

[C0|db|00ded]

Wichita State was achieving national success and sending players to the NBA in the 80's, 70's, 60's, 50's, .....
Only recent DII programs like SWOMO, N.I.U. et al. would continue to talk about the 90's (which is WSU's worst decade in over 100 years of Division I basketball). But even during the 90's, WSU averaged more fans per game than any other team in the league (and probably made more money as well). In other words, in WSU's darkest period, they were still the top program in the league. It was only a matter of time before they righted the ship and started winning again.

Dollar bills friends.. dollar bills.


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[Wufan]

The thing I find myself wondering about , is why we didn't see all this posturing from the fan bases of SIU, ISUr, UNI or even until recently Creighton when those teams had their run at the top of the league in the 90's and early 2000's.

Are you kidding? I distinctly remember SIU and ISUr during their heydays. ISUb was WAY over the top after their three day run in St. Louis. Evansville would be big timing it if they could surpass expectations and win 20 games. Creighton has been quite mild recently (checking that rear view mirror).

There are far more WSU fans than fans from the other schools. It makes it appear to be more over the top than it actually is.

[shoxrox]

And while I know it's not all WSU posters, I've always felt if you fail to police your own, you suffer the consequences of their actions equally as most of us have at various times. JMO

If the above is a true statement, then you probably shouldn't ever be allowed to type a post on this board again with CaseyGarrison4President representing your fanbase.

On a side note, congrats on your first D1 win the other day.

[Jays26]

The thing I find myself wondering about , is why we didn't see all this posturing from the fan bases of SIU, ISUr, UNI or even until recently Creighton when those teams had their run at the top of the league in the 90's and early 2000's. Clearly WSU is on a solid roll right now and is one of the top 2-3 teams in the Valley over a 3 year period. But that hardly surpasses and actually to this point falls short of what we saw from the aforementioned teams during their runs. Yet I don't recall post after post about how they recruited better, coached better, had insights beyond the other Valley schools, or were blatantly miscast as a Valley member. They were simply the best the Valley had to offer for that 3-5 year period , nothing more or less. I'm sure there was a degree of trash talking around individual games and results, but an overall projection of them being anything more than simply a very good program on an extended period of success never seemed to be part of the daily assault . I remember the SIU fans getting their fair share of chatter back about the overhyped Shaw, but again I don't recall much pissing and moaning about how they were the victims of jeolous attack and treated so differently than all other Valley fan bases because they had a good couple years.

I think it's great to celebrate one's successes but it can be done w/o disrespecting other league members.The fact WSU posters have repeatedly belittled the accomplishments of the UNI/CU and other MVC programs over a period of time when they were clearly the better programs, makes it difficult to understand why any other league member would want to acknowledge similar success by WSU now. And while I know it's not all WSU posters, I've always felt if you fail to police your own, you suffer the consequences of their actions equally as most of us have at various times. JMO

Some very good Shox posters but the few you are referring to suffer from a lack of manhood and try to compensate for it here. Most comical thing I have every seen.

[DoubleJayAlum]

The thing I find myself wondering about , is why we didn't see all this posturing from the fan bases of SIU, ISUr, UNI or even until recently Creighton when those teams had their run at the top of the league in the 90's and early 2000's. Clearly WSU is on a solid roll right now and is one of the top 2-3 teams in the Valley over a 3 year period. But that hardly surpasses and actually to this point falls short of what we saw from the aforementioned teams during their runs. Yet I don't recall post after post about how they recruited better, coached better, had insights beyond the other Valley schools, or were blatantly miscast as a Valley member. They were simply the best the Valley had to offer for that 3-5 year period , nothing more or less. I'm sure there was a degree of trash talking around individual games and results, but an overall projection of them being anything more than simply a very good program on an extended period of success never seemed to be part of the daily assault . I remember the SIU fans getting their fair share of chatter back about the overhyped Shaw, but again I don't recall much pissing and moaning about how they were the victims of jeolous attack and treated so differently than all other Valley fan bases because they had a good couple years.

I think it's great to celebrate one's successes but it can be done w/o disrespecting other league members.The fact WSU posters have repeatedly belittled the accomplishments of the UNI/CU and other MVC programs over a period of time when they were clearly the better programs, makes it difficult to understand why any other league member would want to acknowledge similar success by WSU now. And while I know it's not all WSU posters, I've always felt if you fail to police your own, you suffer the consequences of their actions equally as most of us have at various times. JMO

For some reason that I have been unable to explain, WSU fans on this board are the most insecure of all of the fanbases. Earlier this year, they were here boasting about beating Western Carolina. Western Carolina! My comment then was, "If you are a top program, shouldn't you expect to beat Western Carolina? Why the need to brag about it so much? It was Western Carolina, not North Carolina."

I've tried for years to understand this phenomenon, but have yet to come up with an explanation. Perhaps being a commuter school in shadow of two other schools that get more recognition for basketball is the reason? Maybe it has to do with the absolute depths the program suffered for an entire decade? Maybe the voluminous history of NCAA sanctions has left them a bit paranoid? I don't know, but feel it would make for a nice psychological study.