Top forwards

[AngryWheat=FTW=]

If the Valley is more guard oriented this year that will be more bad news for the Valley because I think WSU will be as big as they've ever been.

Carter, Lufile, Early, Coleby.

[jackwagon]

BIgger doesn't always mean better. Those 4 couldn't hold a candle to the combo WSU had a few seasons ago in Durley, Blair, Stutz, and Ellis. That frontcourt was big, scary, and very talented. Early is the best player of the 8 mentioned but to me he is more of a wing guy. Not exactly a post player.

[2livewu]

BIgger doesn't always mean better. Those 4 couldn't hold a candle to the combo WSU had a few seasons ago in Durley, Blair, Stutz, and Ellis. That frontcourt was big, scary, and very talented. Early is the best player of the 8 mentioned but to me he is more of a wing guy. Not exactly a post player.

Pardon?

Bigger may not always mean better, but it's a great place to start. All things being equal, I'll take the bigger guy every day.

J.T. and Garrett were average defensively, at best. Aaron averaged about 2 points a game for his career although he was a fantastic defender.

Coleby will be 3 times the defender Garrett was....and Garrett was 3 times the offensive threat Kadeem will be, but Kadeem will have plenty of dunks because he's active and an incredible athlete.

5th senior J.T. is no comparison to Shaq. But in coming frosh Shaq is a light year ahead of redshirt frosh J.T. Maybe 2 light years.

You're right about Early being the best.....but if you think those guys were big and scary....I think you'll be in for a bit of a surprise this season.

[Redbird Recon]

BIgger doesn't always mean better. Those 4 couldn't hold a candle to the combo WSU had a few seasons ago in Durley, Blair, Stutz, and Ellis. That frontcourt was big, scary, and very talented. Early is the best player of the 8 mentioned but to me he is more of a wing guy. Not exactly a post player.

5th senior J.T. is no comparison to Shaq. But in coming frosh Shaq is a light year ahead of redshirt frosh J.T. Maybe 2 light years.

So Shaq as a frosh won't be as good as Durley as a senior. You just made jack's point for him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread is trying to predict production for just this upcoming season. Also, WSU has been very good for the past 3 season. Obviously you don't go to the Final 4 with hacks, but you also don't win the NIT or go 16-2 in the MVC either. Some of those players you've graduated the past few years were really good.

[jackwagon]

BIgger doesn't always mean better. Those 4 couldn't hold a candle to the combo WSU had a few seasons ago in Durley, Blair, Stutz, and Ellis. That frontcourt was big, scary, and very talented. Early is the best player of the 8 mentioned but to me he is more of a wing guy. Not exactly a post player.

Pardon?

Bigger may not always mean better, but it's a great place to start. All things being equal, I'll take the bigger guy every day.

J.T. and Garrett were average defensively, at best. Aaron averaged about 2 points a game for his career although he was a fantastic defender.

Coleby will be 3 times the defender Garrett was....and Garrett was 3 times the offensive threat Kadeem will be, but Kadeem will have plenty of dunks because he's active and an incredible athlete.

5th senior J.T. is no comparison to Shaq. But in coming frosh Shaq is a light year ahead of redshirt frosh J.T. Maybe 2 light years.

You're right about Early being the best.....but if you think those guys were big and scary....I think you'll be in for a bit of a surprise this season.

I think youll be in for a bit of surprise if you think they will be as good as that team was in the frontcourt. That group was much more experienced and they just were scary from a physical standpoint. Guys like Shaq and Carter have the body types to be studs but it most likely will take some time to produce.

That year you had 5th year Senior J.T. - a beast offensively. average defensively but was a load on the block on offense.
Senior Gabe Blair- rock solid on both ends. Nothing spectacular but was efficient and played a rough brand of basketball.
Junior Garrett Stutz- would of been one of the best centers in the valley that year if not for playing behind Durley. Was literally not fair to other teams to have him backing up J.T.
Senior Aaron Ellis- limited offensively but like you said a great defender.
EO was on that team too but was just there to scare people in warmups at that point.

This years group
Early- best player in the valley but like I said he is more of a 3 than a 4 in my eyes. Will play more frontcourt for the shoxs this year because the team needs him there.
Coleby- sounds like he will be great on defense but not much of an offensive game. More dangerous than EO on that end but hell i'm more dangerous than EO was on offense
Lufile- couldn't get consistent minutes last year. Cant count on him for much outside of spot backup minutes. Doesn't play defense and lacks IQ.
Shaq- True freshman bigs don't contribute much usually. Sounds like a good one though so maybe he gives the shoxs 15 good minutes a game.
Carter- Early reports are very good. But look at Carl in his first season from JC to D1. Solid starter but not a dominate force he was during his senior season. Takes an adjustment period for almost all JC's.

That's a lot riding on True FR, lower level transfers, and JC's to match that teams production. Give me JT's frontcourt team all day.

[2livewu]

Durley was a 30 minute a game starter. Shaq will be lucky to see the floor for 10. I don't think I made his point for him. I made the point that the 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench is far advanced from where Durley was at the same time. Carter is way ahead of Carl Hall 2 seasons ago. And Carter probably doesn't start. WSU is rolling out big, athletic, strong MEN. More than last year and more than 2 years ago. Will they be better?

I don't know....I don't think there's any doubt they'll have a better record in the Valley. I think overall they will be "better" than last season, but I wouldn't even begin to say that's going to manifest itself into the same NCAA run.

My point was simply that we'll be big and scary ...and talented, again.

[Wufan]

BIgger doesn't always mean better. Those 4 couldn't hold a candle to the combo WSU had a few seasons ago in Durley, Blair, Stutz, and Ellis. That frontcourt was big, scary, and very talented. Early is the best player of the 8 mentioned but to me he is more of a wing guy. Not exactly a post player.

Bottom line is that WSU will have BIG talented players. If the league is guard oriented, that will favor WSU as the will be the biggest and most talented regardless of whether or not this year's team is better than the NIT championship team.

Early is likely to be a stretch 4 this year, even if he plays some wing, I would bet he will play more 4.

[Wufan]

I guess all of Loyola's players would be excluded as "newcomers" to the MVC, but Christian Thomas will be in this conversation after you see him play. The other forwards are all still young, but Thomas will probably be the most productive this year.

He was included in the "Wing" thread. In fact, he is #2 on there.

I debated putting Thomas in the PF rankings as, if I'm not mistaken, he played quite a bit of time at the 4 last year. I decided to place him in the SF slot as it appears that Loyola will have enough big bodies that Thomas will be able to play more on the wing. Not sure I'm correct.

[ahunte1]

I debated putting Thomas in the PF rankings as, if I'm not mistaken, he played quite a bit of time at the 4 last year.

Thomas is definitely more of a 4 than anything else. Whether he is a top five PF in the MVC remains to be seen, of course. He's best when he's playing in the paint and with a bigger player drawing some of the defense's attention away.

His freshman year, he was forced into more of a 3 role, which included handling the ball because our guard play was so terrible. That did not go well too well for him.

I decided to place him in the SF slot as it appears that Loyola will have enough big bodies that Thomas will be able to play more on the wing. Not sure I'm correct.

I think there is simply a lot of flexibility in roles on this team. You'll see Loyola playing three guards at times, and three "power forwards" at other times.

When I think of a "wing" I think of a dynamic 2/3, and Doyle is probably the only player who truly fits that description.

[AngryWheat=FTW=]

BIgger doesn't always mean better. Those 4 couldn't hold a candle to the combo WSU had a few seasons ago in Durley, Blair, Stutz, and Ellis. That frontcourt was big, scary, and very talented. Early is the best player of the 8 mentioned but to me he is more of a wing guy. Not exactly a post player.

I would say that any of the four I listed is an upgrade over Elllis. I don't remember that guy putting up any big numbers at all.