CUSA making big moves in hoops

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Periodic reminder that Doug Elgin works for the university presidents so if they don't want to expand there isn't a damn thing he can do about it.

There having a hard time with 12. 14 is pretty much a no go. Under the right circumstances I could see. Like WSU and SLU come and Creighton gets sick of traveling and comes back (never going to happen but something huge would have to happen IMO)

Also, my point is more not being in a rush. There is NO reason to add Murray now. Especially because they're not at risk to be poached by someone better than the MVC. They'll always be there.

On another note, if Loyola puts a few more good seasons together they might be the ones to go to the BE with Dayton. That would be a kick to the gut. Who knew Loyola could be the university most likely to get poached.

I agree with most of this. Murray can only make a lateral move at best and will be there if and when we decide we want them and, frankly, with more realignment coming I'm not 100% sold that rural Kentucky is a place we really want or need to be. NKU might be the better play there being in the Cincinnatti Metro.

Am I the only one still not 100% sold on Loyola? They had a fantastic year and caught some massive breaks in the tournament. More power to them. Great run, great for the league and I'm thrilled for the 500 real fans that used to show up. They've had exactly 5 20 win seasons since 1980 and are well below .500 over that time period (535-601). To me this feels a helluva lot more like George Mason than it does Wichita or VCU...

Hell, they were a Ben Richardson prayer away from being the first 1-seed to lose on Friday in St Louis.

I expect them to get an at-large if they don't win the tournament. As far as long term only time will tell. And, I 100% agree with NKU. If were staying within the footprint they should be number one due to location.
If Loyola ever does leave I guess UIC would be immediately added to keep a team in intercity Chicago.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Periodic reminder that Doug Elgin works for the university presidents so if they don't want to expand there isn't a damn thing he can do about it.

There having a hard time with 12. 14 is pretty much a no go. Under the right circumstances I could see. Like WSU and SLU come and Creighton gets sick of traveling and comes back (never going to happen but something huge would have to happen IMO)

Also, my point is more not being in a rush. There is NO reason to add Murray now. Especially because they're not at risk to be poached by someone better than the MVC. They'll always be there.

On another note, if Loyola puts a few more good seasons together they might be the ones to go to the BE with Dayton. That would be a kick to the gut. Who knew Loyola could be the university most likely to get poached.

I agree with most of this. Murray can only make a lateral move at best and will be there if and when we decide we want them and, frankly, with more realignment coming I'm not 100% sold that rural Kentucky is a place we really want or need to be. NKU might be the better play there being in the Cincinnatti Metro.

Am I the only one still not 100% sold on Loyola? They had a fantastic year and caught some massive breaks in the tournament. More power to them. Great run, great for the league and I'm thrilled for the 500 real fans that used to show up. They've had exactly 5 20 win seasons since 1980 and are well below .500 over that time period (535-601). To me this feels a helluva lot more like George Mason than it does Wichita or VCU...

Hell, they were a Ben Richardson prayer away from being the first 1-seed to lose on Friday in St Louis.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... =401020134

- The Ben Richardson prayer was with 7 minutes left.

- Loyola led the entire final 6:58 and never trailed after 8:15.

- Loyola was up 8 with 3:35, 3:01, & 0:57 to go.

- The closest UNI got in the final 5:41 was 3 points.

* Comparing Loyola then to now is 2 different schools/athletic departments/administrations. They didn’t start going all in until about 4-5 years ago and this was the first year of those investments paying dividends.

* Loyola’s market delivered monster ratings for the MVC final. 6th of all conferences and that was before Loyola fever engulfed Chicago. This run had the Chicago skyline adjusting lights to root for Loyola. You just can’t access this kind of exposure elsewhere in middle America. Loyola is now discussed with regularity on sports radio, the MVC was invisible in this market previously.

* Just read a preseason top 25 with Loyola #5 and Clayton Custer an All-American. That’s not George Mason, who didn’t have anything close to a Custer/Townes/Krutwig returning, or assistants like Mullins/Valentine.

* If you polled tv executives and higher leagues, it is probable Loyola is named most valuable.

* Re-Murray: If any league should know a rural mid-major can make NCAA runs, it’s this one.

[BCPanther]

Time will tell. I hope for the sake of the league they remain strong but I think its fair to have some doubts.

[VUGrad1314]

I would be shocked to see the Ramblers get a BE Invite due to the presence of DePaul already in Chicago, also even with the recent massive uptick in donations, Loyola is a long time from having a basketball budget that could reasonably be expected to compete at the BE level. I think the MVC will be Loyola's home for awhile and I think that's great news for both parties.

As for future realignment I don't see Dayton going anywhere except the MVC, but in the scenario you just outlined with Wichita State and SLU possibly coming back and Murray State also lined up does that get a school like Belmont to come aboard as the 14th assuming Dayton is off the table.

Be careful emphasizing market too much. The move away from traditional cable TV is rendering market increasingly irrelevant. Pick the better program regardless of location. Right now and for the foreseeable future Murray State is miles ahead of NKU though I would take both under the right circumstances. I think both have great potential and would benefit tremendously from MVC membership.

[Rambler63]

Time will tell. I hope for the sake of the league they remain strong but I think its fair to have some doubts.

Just since Loyola's been a member of the MVC, they've won a CBI Title and reached the Final Four in men's basketball. That's two milestones Creighton (remember them? the team that everyone was upset about losing when Loyola was added?) has failed to achieve in its entire history. Creighton was runner up in the 2011 CBI, and their best ever NCAA Tournament performance was the Elite Eight in 1941.... when there were only 8 teams in the tournament. Creighton's last Sweet 16 was in 1974... when they weren't part of the MVC, and it took only one win to reach the Sweet 16. Loyola has reached the Sweet 16 twice since Creighton's last Sweet 16, both times when it took two wins to get there. And Loyola is 1-0 head-to-head against Creighton since being in the MVC.

Like Creighton, Xavier has also never been to the Final Four. Tennessee, BYU, Missouri, Tulsa, San Diego State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Arizona State, Texas Tech, and St. Louis have never made the Final Four. Murray State had never even made the Sweet 16. And yet those nagging doubts about Loyola persist...

Tough crowd.

[VUGrad1314]

Ramblers63, I see your point and agree, but how many of those programs you've listed also took about a quarter century long trip to college basketball's doldrums where they never really competed for anything between the late 80's to the early 2010's? That's probably what concerns BCPanther. I will say however that I believe that such a great falling off is very unlikely to occur as long as you have Moser and players like Krutwig are routinely surrounded with talent.

[uniguy]

The reason to add Murray right now is to get stronger right now. What is the reason NOT to add them? Some pipe dream about SLU or Wichita rejoining? Yeah, I guess that is possible. But more likely we will be waiting for a long long time for that to happen. And adding Murray doesn't keep us from being able to do that even if that opportunity does arise.

I really don't care where they are located. I don't believe at our level markets matter very much. In fact, one could argue that having most of our schools in rural settings has helped our league over the years. We are a big deal in our areas, which can't be said about....say......a huge chunk of the urban Horizon League schools (UIC, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland State, IUPUI). It isn't about TV deals at this level so what does being in a big market really mean if no one in that market cares?

It took a Final Four run to get Loyola any play in Chicago. Yes, when that happened that was great. But up until then, was being "in Chicago" really that beneficial to the league as a whole? Not really. Their going to the Final Four was.

In summary, having competitive teams with decent sized fan bases and decent resources is more important than market at our level. If NKU brings that, great. If not, I don't want them just because they are in Cincinnati. I want the team that has a large fanbase (by mid major standards) and a history of success no matter where they're located.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Time will tell. I hope for the sake of the league they remain strong but I think its fair to have some doubts.

Just since Loyola's been a member of the MVC, they've won a CBI Title and reached the Final Four in men's basketball. That's two milestones Creighton (remember them? the team that everyone was upset about losing when Loyola was added?) has failed to achieve in its entire history. Creighton was runner up in the 2011 CBI, and their best ever NCAA Tournament performance was the Elite Eight in 1941.... when there were only 8 teams in the tournament. Creighton's last Sweet 16 was in 1974... when they weren't part of the MVC, and it took only one win to reach the Sweet 16. Loyola has reached the Sweet 16 twice since Creighton's last Sweet 16, both times when it took two wins to get there. And Loyola is 1-0 head-to-head against Creighton since being in the MVC.

Like Creighton, Xavier has also never been to the Final Four. Tennessee, BYU, Missouri, Tulsa, San Diego State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Arizona State, Texas Tech, and St. Louis have never made the Final Four. Murray State had never even made the Sweet 16. And yet those nagging doubts about Loyola persist...

Tough crowd.

NCAA Wins as MVC Members

Creighton - 5 Wins/37 Years
Northern Iowa - 4 Wins/27 Years
Loyola - 4 Wins/5 Years

Everyone would consider Creighton and Northern Iowa good adds. It’s time to move into 2018 and acknowledge Loyola slayed every critic. A Final Four run buys 25 years of goodwill even if you don’t win another NCAA game in my books.

[uniguy]

Time will tell. I hope for the sake of the league they remain strong but I think its fair to have some doubts.

Just since Loyola's been a member of the MVC, they've won a CBI Title and reached the Final Four in men's basketball. That's two milestones Creighton (remember them? the team that everyone was upset about losing when Loyola was added?) has failed to achieve in its entire history. Creighton was runner up in the 2011 CBI, and their best ever NCAA Tournament performance was the Elite Eight in 1941.... when there were only 8 teams in the tournament. Creighton's last Sweet 16 was in 1974... when they weren't part of the MVC, and it took only one win to reach the Sweet 16. Loyola has reached the Sweet 16 twice since Creighton's last Sweet 16, both times when it took two wins to get there. And Loyola is 1-0 head-to-head against Creighton since being in the MVC.

Like Creighton, Xavier has also never been to the Final Four. Tennessee, BYU, Missouri, Tulsa, San Diego State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Arizona State, Texas Tech, and St. Louis have never made the Final Four. Murray State had never even made the Sweet 16. And yet those nagging doubts about Loyola persist...

Tough crowd.

While I agree that it is silly to doubt Loyola right now, the fact that you made the Final Four and none of those programs never have doesn't really prove a whole lot. The Florida Marlins have won more World Series than the Houston Astros, but the Astros are still the better franchise. You have just proven that you have had one good season in the last 30 years. And that is great. But all of those teams you listed have significantly more tournament appearances than Loyola in that time. And over the long haul consistent success is more important than one Final Four (at least in terms of strength for the league as a whole).

Right now Loyola is George Mason. But, unlike George Mason, the jury is still out on whether Loyola will capitalize on this and become consistent winners. I hope they do!

[VUGrad1314]

We all hope they do!