MVC - Predicted order of finish

[LJay]

While there is no way I would predict CU tops inthe Valley, the old saw about guard play wins in the Valley is because the Valley never and I mean never in modern times since big money hit the game gets a kid like Echineque. There are so few truly dominant bigs they are ALWAYS gobbled up by the BcS. In fact, so was GE and getting him this year was an anomoly.

Good 6'2 guys are a dime a dozen. Good 6'9, 275 guys are rare.

All that said Antoine Young better improve his PG play (especially consistency, at times he was great but mostly he was not) and someone better step up as his backup.

By the way, CU's Wayne Runnels was 2nd team juco all american. Don't fall too much in love with juco AA status.

[valleychamp]

While there is no way I would predict CU tops inthe Valley, the old saw about guard play wins in the Valley is because the Valley never and I mean never in modern times since big money hit the game gets a kid like Echineque. There are so few truly dominant bigs they are ALWAYS gobbled up by the BcS. In fact, so was GE and getting him this year was an anomoly.

Good 6'2 guys are a dime a dozen. Good 6'9, 275 guys are rare.

All that said Antoine Young better improve his PG play (especially consistency, at times he was great but mostly he was not) and someone better step up as his backup.

By the way, CU's Wayne Runnels was 2nd team juco all american. Don't fall too much in love with juco AA status.

That is BS.

You mean to tell me that the Valley never sees a big man, as good as some transfer from freaking rutgers? C'mon man. There have been two big men in the last 5 years from the Valley that are playing in the NBA, in POB and Tolliver. And Eglseder is getting a real hard look from the NBA as we speak.

Please tell me the last time that a big man dominated the MVC and lead his team to the championship, without an excellent guard or two. And that is the problem with Creighton.

CU has a couple of good to very good big men, along with a bunch of so-so guards. I don't think they have good enough players to contend for the title just yet. And that is not even factoring in the new coaching staff. The coaching ineptitude that McDermott showed at Iowa State was astounding at times during his tenure there.

[MoValley John]

While there is no way I would predict CU tops inthe Valley, the old saw about guard play wins in the Valley is because the Valley never and I mean never in modern times since big money hit the game gets a kid like Echineque. There are so few truly dominant bigs they are ALWAYS gobbled up by the BcS. In fact, so was GE and getting him this year was an anomoly.

Good 6'2 guys are a dime a dozen. Good 6'9, 275 guys are rare.

All that said Antoine Young better improve his PG play (especially consistency, at times he was great but mostly he was not) and someone better step up as his backup.

By the way, CU's Wayne Runnels was 2nd team juco all american. Don't fall too much in love with juco AA status.

That is BS.

You mean to tell me that the Valley never sees a big man, as good as some transfer from freaking rutgers? C'mon man. There have been two big men in the last 5 years from the Valley that are playing in the NBA, in POB and Tolliver. And Eglseder is getting a real hard look from the NBA as we speak.

Please tell me the last time that a big man dominated the MVC and lead his team to the championship, without an excellent guard or two. And that is the problem with Creighton.

CU has a couple of good to very good big men, along with a bunch of so-so guards. I don't think they have good enough players to contend for the title just yet. And that is not even factoring in the new coaching staff. The coaching ineptitude that McDermott showed at Iowa State was astounding at times during his tenure there.

I think you pretty much proved LJay's point. Anthony Tolliver WASN'T a dominant big man until his Jr. and Sr year. When he developed, he helped carry Creighton. POB WAS an anomoly in the Valley and took Bradley to a Sweet 16. Egelseder took UNI where? Two Valley titles and a Sweet 16. Dominant big men do have a major impact when the Valley is blessed enough to land one, find a diamond in the rough or develop one. The Valley is a "guard" league not out of choice but because that is what is available. There are thousands of guards out there waiting for the call, but oh so few dominant bigs with skills. Those usually end up at Kentucky and Kansas. The Valley is a guard league because of the reality of the situation, not because it is the ideal situation. The few dominant Bigs the Valley has landed have made huge impacts.

As for McDermott at Iowa State, I don't know if I would put too much stock in what happened there, Iowa State was a train wreck before he arrived. McDermott had the pleasure of attempting to clean out the scandal and completely rebuild. Iowa State was a disaster before McDermott stepped foot on campus. The Iowa State job woukld have worked for Huggins, Pitino and a few others that don't mind sloshing around in the mud, but few others would have succeeded and done so without shamelessly cheating. That strategy seems to have worked at Kansas State, however.

[unipanther99]

Even non-dominant big men can force Valley teams to alter their rotations and change how they play defense. It does make a difference, and I think we will be missing big Jordan more than most Panther fans realize this year.

[valleychamp]

While there is no way I would predict CU tops inthe Valley, the old saw about guard play wins in the Valley is because the Valley never and I mean never in modern times since big money hit the game gets a kid like Echineque. There are so few truly dominant bigs they are ALWAYS gobbled up by the BcS. In fact, so was GE and getting him this year was an anomoly.

Good 6'2 guys are a dime a dozen. Good 6'9, 275 guys are rare.

All that said Antoine Young better improve his PG play (especially consistency, at times he was great but mostly he was not) and someone better step up as his backup.

By the way, CU's Wayne Runnels was 2nd team juco all american. Don't fall too much in love with juco AA status.

That is BS.

You mean to tell me that the Valley never sees a big man, as good as some transfer from freaking rutgers? C'mon man. There have been two big men in the last 5 years from the Valley that are playing in the NBA, in POB and Tolliver. And Eglseder is getting a real hard look from the NBA as we speak.

Please tell me the last time that a big man dominated the MVC and lead his team to the championship, without an excellent guard or two. And that is the problem with Creighton.

CU has a couple of good to very good big men, along with a bunch of so-so guards. I don't think they have good enough players to contend for the title just yet. And that is not even factoring in the new coaching staff. The coaching ineptitude that McDermott showed at Iowa State was astounding at times during his tenure there.

I think you pretty much proved LJay's point. Anthony Tolliver WASN'T a dominant big man until his Jr. and Sr year. When he developed, he helped carry Creighton. POB WAS an anomoly in the Valley and took Bradley to a Sweet 16. Egelseder took UNI where? Two Valley titles and a Sweet 16. Dominant big men do have a major impact when the Valley is blessed enough to land one, find a diamond in the rough or develop one. The Valley is a "guard" league not out of choice but because that is what is available. There are thousands of guards out there waiting for the call, but oh so few dominant bigs with skills. Those usually end up at Kentucky and Kansas. The Valley is a guard league because of the reality of the situation, not because it is the ideal situation. The few dominant Bigs the Valley has landed have made huge impacts.

As for McDermott at Iowa State, I don't know if I would put too much stock in what happened there, Iowa State was a train wreck before he arrived. McDermott had the pleasure of attempting to clean out the scandal and completely rebuild. Iowa State was a disaster before McDermott stepped foot on campus. The Iowa State job woukld have worked for Huggins, Pitino and a few others that don't mind sloshing around in the mud, but few others would have succeeded and done so without shamelessly cheating. That strategy seems to have worked at Kansas State, however.

All the big men mentioned had elite MVC guards playing next to them, and in most cases those big men mentioned weren't even the best players on their own teams. Dominant bigs, are obviously a major component of a winning team. But they almost never win without great guards playing alongside them. And that is my point regarding Creighton, that they don't have the playmakers to go around the bigs.

As for McDermott, I would put stock into what he did at ISU. The simple fact is that he coached multiple NBA players during his tenure there and still was not able to make a single postseason tournament of any kind.

[MoValley John]

I guess the great guard alongside Tolliver was Josh "Bum knee" Dotzler. Dotzler's 2 pts a game really helped Tolliver shine.

The Valley has very, very good guard play, but the lack of a focus on bigs isn't because it is the optimal approach to the game, it is because there are not enough bigs around to fill roster spots on forty D-1 teams. That's right, there aren't even enough quality bigs to fill the rosters on the BCS teams, much less Valley teams. And I will throw this opinion out, Creighton didn't suffer so much last year because of Stinnett (although they did) their biggest problem was that they had such a huge deficit at the post. Lawson is a good ball player, but it was him against the world. I don't know if this Esquhoweveryouspellhisname is all that, but regardless of how good he is, Creighton will be much improved at the post. And with Stinnett gone, that will help as well.

[SubGod22]

Do they have anyone that can feed the post? I like the potential that Young has, but he has to continue to get better with ballhandling/decision making if CU is going to be able to take advantage of the greatest post player to step foot in the Valley in 20 years...

I have no idea if the Rutgers cast off will be any good. He may very well be able to hold his own, or he may be a decent role player or a flop. I don't really care. I don't see him leading them to great successes this year. With or without him I expect them to be in the middle of the standings.

[MoValley John]

Do they have anyone that can feed the post? I like the potential that Young has, but he has to continue to get better with ballhandling/decision making if CU is going to be able to take advantage of the greatest post player to step foot in the Valley in 20 years...

I have no idea if the Rutgers cast off will be any good. He may very well be able to hold his own, or he may be a decent role player or a flop. I don't really care. I don't see him leading them to great successes this year. With or without him I expect them to be in the middle of the standings.

I thought Orukpe was the greatest post player to step foot in the Valley in 20 years...

At least that is what you are lead to believe if you read Shockernet and the 130+ page thread with more than 2,000 posts. Over on Shockernet you have grown men drooling about seeing a guy without a shirt on.
http://shockernet.net/sn/viewtopic.php? ... ght=orukpe

[SubGod22]

MVJ, that's mostly done in fun and because we worked so long and hard to get him out of Africa. He's an athlete that we hope develops into a difference maker and just about every Shocker fan would tell you pretty much the same thing. Nobody is saying he's going to step in and lead us to the Valley title.

We've been following Ehimen for a few years now and a lot of that was done in jest and frustration. He could very well develop into a dominate force, who knows. But nobody is claiming anything that far out with Ehimen. Unlike CU fans and the Rutgers reject. He's not the first BcS talent to transfer into the Valley.

[valleychamp]

I guess the great guard alongside Tolliver was Josh "Bum knee" Dotzler. Dotzler's 2 pts a game really helped Tolliver shine.

The Valley has very, very good guard play, but the lack of a focus on bigs isn't because it is the optimal approach to the game, it is because there are not enough bigs around to fill roster spots on forty D-1 teams. That's right, there aren't even enough quality bigs to fill the rosters on the BCS teams, much less Valley teams. And I will throw this opinion out, Creighton didn't suffer so much last year because of Stinnett (although they did) their biggest problem was that they had such a huge deficit at the post. Lawson is a good ball player, but it was him against the world. I don't know if this Esquhoweveryouspellhisname is all that, but regardless of how good he is, Creighton will be much improved at the post. And with Stinnett gone, that will help as well.

Um, it was Nate Funk. Not Dotzler..