MVC POY

[BirdsEyeView]

It's not about improving, quit moving the goal post. It's about performing relative to preseason media expectations. Morgan was pre-season MVP and his team is .500. Sounds like MVP material for sure.

Difference between individual performances and team performances. It's a double standard. The best player (usually on the best team) wins POY.
The best coach on the best team does not always due to the team expectations...they have the players, therefore they were expected to win, and thus the coach only performed to the level he/she was supposed to.

[specialsauce]

Not going to let it die, huh?

Ironic.

[Cdizzle]

It's not about improving, quit moving the goal post. It's about performing relative to preseason media expectations. Morgan was pre-season MVP and his team is .500. Sounds like MVP material for sure.

Difference between individual performances and team performances. It's a double standard. The best player (usually on the best team) wins POY.
The best coach on the best team does not always due to the team expectations...they have the players, therefore they were expected to win, and thus the coach only performed to the level he/she was supposed to.

There's zero difference. The best coach with the best team was expected to win. The best player with the best skills was expected to put up stats. Using this logic, the preseason polls and All-MVC selections are really just disqualifying people from end of year awards.

[BirdsEyeView]

It's a mindset from voters and the media specifically, CDizzle. How do you not comprehend this???

You are 100% right that your thought process is correct, however that is NOT how it is portrayed or perceived when voting actually happens a lot of the time.

[specialsauce]

Mark Few, WCC Coach of the Year:
2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015

The only years he did not win the award were 2007 (3 league losses, only won the league by 1 game), 2011 (tied with St. Mary's for title), 2012 (St. Mary's won league), 2014 (won the league only by 2 games), 2016 (tied St. Mary's for title)

Man, those west coast voters are idiots. This isn't how it's done.

[Redhawk]

Mark Few, WCC Coach of the Year:
2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015

The only years he did not win the award were 2007 (3 league losses, only won the league by 1 game), 2011 (tied with St. Mary's for title), 2012 (St. Mary's won league), 2014 (won the league only by 2 games), 2016 (tied St. Mary's for title)

Man, those west coast voters are idiots. This isn't how it's done.

And the years Few did not win:
2007: Davey - Santa Clara 2nd
2009: Reveno - Portland 3rd
2012: Good: LMU 4th
2014: Walters - USF Tied 2nd

Reason they all won...because they exceeded expectations. I personally don't believe that warrants
being coach of the year though... but as pointed out by Birdseye some people just like the underdog!

[specialsauce]

Mark Few, WCC Coach of the Year:
2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015

The only years he did not win the award were 2007 (3 league losses, only won the league by 1 game), 2011 (tied with St. Mary's for title), 2012 (St. Mary's won league), 2014 (won the league only by 2 games), 2016 (tied St. Mary's for title)

Man, those west coast voters are idiots. This isn't how it's done.

And the years Few did not win:
2007: Davey - Santa Clara 2nd
2009: Reveno - Portland 3rd
2012: Good: LMU 4th
2014: Walters - USF Tied 2nd

Reason they all won...because they exceeded expectations. I personally don't believe that warrants
being coach of the year though... but as pointed out by Birdseye some people just like the underdog!

And as I pointed out, those were given in years where Gonzaga either didn't win the league, didn't win it outright, or won it by a couple games.

Dominating a league by 4 games and then getting shafted for it pretty much makes zero sense. The west coasters have yet to do this to Few, but it's supposedly a media mainstream thing now so I digress.

[BirdsEyeView]

The Big 12 Conference has been won 11 straight times by Kansas...Coach of the Year award winners in those 11 years:

05 - Bill Self
06 - Billy Gillispie (2nd)
07 - Rick Barnes (t-1st)
08 - Bill Self
09 - Frank Martin (2nd)
10 - Bill Self
11 - Bill Self/Fred Hoiberg (tied)
12 - Bruce Weber (t-1st)
13 - Rick Barnes (3rd place)
14 - Bob Huggins (4th place!!)
15 - Tubby Smith (7th place!!!!)

So what does this tell you? As the culture of the underdog evolved, coaches who overachieved expectations became a trend just as it did last year in MVC voting. Plus, I'm sure complacency in the forever winners (Kansas) continues, voters started to adapt to voting and awarding COY elsewhere over the past 4 years...culminating in 7th place Tubby Smith at 9-9 in the league winning it last season. A much worse award to give than Barry Hinson.

[Cdizzle]

The Big 12 Conference has been won 11 straight times by Kansas...Coach of the Year award winners in those 11 years:

05 - Bill Self
06 - Billy Gillispie (2nd)
07 - Rick Barnes (t-1st)
08 - Bill Self
09 - Frank Martin (2nd)
10 - Bill Self
11 - Bill Self/Fred Hoiberg (tied)
12 - Bruce Weber (t-1st)
13 - Rick Barnes (3rd place)
14 - Bob Huggins (4th place!!)
15 - Tubby Smith (7th place!!!!)

So what does this tell you? As the culture of the underdog evolved, coaches who overachieved expectations became a trend just as it did last year in MVC voting. Plus, I'm sure complacency in the forever winners (Kansas) continues, voters started to adapt to voting and awarding COY elsewhere over the past 4 years...culminating in 7th place Tubby Smith at 9-9 in the league winning it last season. A much worse award to give than Barry Hinson.

So, I'm to assume from your list that KU dominated the B12 by at least 4 games every year? I'll also assume for your list that all of the non-Self teams did not participate in post-season play.

Keep searching. You'll find a useful case eventually.

[Redbirdgrad]

Relax guys.

If it's not pro-shocker, it'll be crapped on by their fans.

Even when you agree with them (which we are with 99% of this conversation), they still have to go over the top. Every little detail of every little argument has to benefit the shockers in some way or show how they were wronged.

Even when they're led by a coach who struggles to get them through a 3 day tourney in St. Louis against inferior competition