Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[VUGrad1314]

So from reports the Big East Mountain West and (of course) the American are all vetting new candidates for their conferences potentially. Could this be why we're holding off on Murray State? I still think that's stupid and short-sighted because I can't really see any realignment scenario where the MVC reels in anything better than Murray State but what do I know? Even so if we can find an even better candidate than Murray State I think then the desired number for the conference should be 14 instead of 12 but again what do I know?


One thing is for certain though if we are indeed stopping at the Belmont addition and going to 11\20 (which I remember was SUCH a non-starter a few years ago What the heck changed?) then Non-D1s need to be banned. We should have the room to play a full D1 slate and have even fewer opportunities to make our at large case.

[SalukiWorld]

So from reports the Big East Mountain West and (of course) the American are all vetting new candidates for their conferences potentially. Could this be why we're holding off on Murray State? I still think that's stupid and short-sighted because I can't really see any realignment scenario where the MVC reels in anything better than Murray State but what do I know? Even so if we can find an even better candidate than Murray State I think then the desired number for the conference should be 14 instead of 12 but again what do I know?


One thing is for certain though if we are indeed stopping at the Belmont addition and going to 11\20 (which I remember was SUCH a non-starter a few years ago What the heck changed?) then Non-D1s need to be banned. We should have the room to play a full D1 slate and have even fewer opportunities to make our at large case.

The hold-up with Murray State is likely coming from the football side of things. There's no incentive for the MVFC to add Murray State which will make the league weaker.

[Drakey]

So from reports the Big East Mountain West and (of course) the American are all vetting new candidates for their conferences potentially. Could this be why we're holding off on Murray State? I still think that's stupid and short-sighted because I can't really see any realignment scenario where the MVC reels in anything better than Murray State but what do I know? Even so if we can find an even better candidate than Murray State I think then the desired number for the conference should be 14 instead of 12 but again what do I know?


One thing is for certain though if we are indeed stopping at the Belmont addition and going to 11\20 (which I remember was SUCH a non-starter a few years ago What the heck changed?) then Non-D1s need to be banned. We should have the room to play a full D1 slate and have even fewer opportunities to make our at large case.

The hold-up with Murray State is likely coming from the football side of things. There's no incentive for the MVFC to add Murray State which will make the league weaker.

What does it matter if an FCS Football conference is weaker?

[SalukiWorld]

So from reports the Big East Mountain West and (of course) the American are all vetting new candidates for their conferences potentially. Could this be why we're holding off on Murray State? I still think that's stupid and short-sighted because I can't really see any realignment scenario where the MVC reels in anything better than Murray State but what do I know? Even so if we can find an even better candidate than Murray State I think then the desired number for the conference should be 14 instead of 12 but again what do I know?


One thing is for certain though if we are indeed stopping at the Belmont addition and going to 11\20 (which I remember was SUCH a non-starter a few years ago What the heck changed?) then Non-D1s need to be banned. We should have the room to play a full D1 slate and have even fewer opportunities to make our at large case.

The hold-up with Murray State is likely coming from the football side of things. There's no incentive for the MVFC to add Murray State which will make the league weaker.

What does it matter if an FCS Football conference is weaker?

It matters to the schools in the MVFC that don't care about MVC Basketball

[VUGrad1314]

So from reports the Big East Mountain West and (of course) the American are all vetting new candidates for their conferences potentially. Could this be why we're holding off on Murray State? I still think that's stupid and short-sighted because I can't really see any realignment scenario where the MVC reels in anything better than Murray State but what do I know? Even so if we can find an even better candidate than Murray State I think then the desired number for the conference should be 14 instead of 12 but again what do I know?


One thing is for certain though if we are indeed stopping at the Belmont addition and going to 11\20 (which I remember was SUCH a non-starter a few years ago What the heck changed?) then Non-D1s need to be banned. We should have the room to play a full D1 slate and have even fewer opportunities to make our at large case.

The hold-up with Murray State is likely coming from the football side of things. There's no incentive for the MVFC to add Murray State which will make the league weaker.

THANK YOU. I can't see how adding Murray State affects the MVFC one way or the other. NDSU and SDSU should get bids every year and at least one if not two of Illinois State UNI SIU and Missouri State WIU and South Dakota should be good enough to get bids as well whether Murray State is in the conference or not. If this is the Dakotas holding this up then I say let them start their own league in the Summit League or go back to the Big Sky if they'll take them back. We can't be bothered with what FCS football powers want when our bread and butter as a league is basketball.

What does it matter if an FCS Football conference is weaker?

THANK YOU. I can't see how adding Murray State affects the MVFC one way or the other. NDSU and SDSU should get bids every year and at least one if not two of Illinois State UNI SIU and Missouri State WIU and South Dakota should be good enough to get bids as well whether Murray State is in the conference or not. If this is the Dakotas holding this up then I say let them start their own league in the Summit League or go back to the Big Sky if they'll take them back. We can't be bothered with what FCS football powers want when our bread and butter as a league is basketball. FCS football doesn't pay the bills or bring the exposure for the MVC. Basketball does. Make basketball adds and if the non MVC football schools don't like it the door swings out. Don't let it hit you as you pass through it. The MVC football schools gave them North Dakota which I'm sure nobody was thrilled about ANOTHER potential trip up there especially for a program that isn't even that good. Seriously is Murray State that much worse than North Dakota as a program? It's time for them to make a sacrifice in return and accept Murray State if that's the holdup. If not as I said they can leave. If they want Northern Colorado (if WIU leaves for the OVC) in return then screw it give them Northern Colorado if that's what it takes. Let's just get this done already. It's just FCS football. Getting a few fewer bids in it isn't the end of the world especially since it's a separate conference anyway. I'd suggest just adding NDSU and SDSU to the conference as full members to get them to go along but I doubt they would do it without UND and USD which is a non starter. Moreover it is a significant increase in travel costs for programs that probably don't bring as much as Murray and Belmont do. They're both investing and that's good so maybe they could be good additions but I don't know. It also would probably make the private schools nervous. Maybe add a couple of non football publics to balance it out as pseudo-private schools? But then we're running a serious risk of the league becoming too big and diluted. I think the only solution here if the Dakota schools don't relent(assuming that's the hold up) is for the MVC and non MVC teams to split off and go their separate ways. FCS football cannot and should not become a hindrance to the growth and development of the MVC as a basketball league.

[TylerDurden]

The problem with completely disregarding what is best for MVFC is that, despite it officially being separate entity, the football-playing MVC schools have voting power. UNI, SIU, ISU (red), ISU (blue) and MSU are 5/10 votes on any league matter.

As silly as it may seem to undercut a good basketball addition, the football politics always factor in.

Football drives college athletics, even at the FCS level. Basketball is just along for the ride.

[VUGrad1314]

The problem with completely disregarding what is best for MVFC is that, despite it officially being separate entity, the football-playing MVC schools have voting power. UNI, SIU, ISU (red), ISU (blue) and MSU are 5/10 votes on any league matter.

As silly as it may seem to undercut a good basketball addition, the football politics always factor in.

Football drives college athletics, even at the FCS level. Basketball is just along for the ride.

You sure about that? I thought FCS football almost universally loses money outside of maybe top of the top schools like NDSU while basketball actually makes money for the MVC. Is it possible that I'm totally wrong in this belief? Also aren't most of the MVC publics on board with Murray State as an addition? I remember hearing Missouri State was solidly in their corner before and I have to assume Northern Iowa would be because of basketball prowess. Illinois State and Indiana State I would guess are either indifferent or supportive (probably the latter though it seems less clear than the former two). The only one I feel like might be concerning is SIU because they are in the same market. But judging from the fans here it would seem like that won't be a problem.

[BCPanther]

I hear you VU, those of us that are truly invested know that basketball is our premiere sport.

However, the fundraising hit that the 5 football members would take by either dropping the sport or de-emphasizing would be catastrophic. Last time UNI did a 'feasibility study' that examined going FBS, staying FCS or dropping to non-scholarship showed that UNI would lose 65-70% of private donations as well as the corporate money that comes from HyVee, John Deere and TrueNorth. Now, obviously, those studies end up saying whatever the person paying for them wants them to say but there is some truth to it.

Long term, the MVFC isn't sustainable. The Dakota schools are impossible to co-exist with and have been forever going back to D2. That's why UNI left the old North Central Conference in the late 70s and went D1. They can not be bargained with because of their massively inflated self-worth.

Ideally, you let them go off and have Summit League football but the problem becomes how on earth do you schedule 6 non-conference games when it's damn near impossible for the better Valley programs (UNI and Illinois State) to get 3? I'm guessing the other issue with Murray is that UNI and Missouri State don't want to be stuck in a division with the 4 Dakota schools and not get to play the MVC teams on a regular basis.

My vote is you say 'f*** 'em'. Take football back fully under the MVC umbrella, add Murray and bring in Youngstown and Robert Morris as affiliates and be done with it. You can live with that 8 team league and you probably get two bids every year.

[VUGrad1314]

I hear you VU, those of us that are truly invested know that basketball is our premiere sport.

However, the fundraising hit that the 5 football members would take by either dropping the sport or de-emphasizing would be catastrophic. Last time UNI did a 'feasibility study' that examined going FBS, staying FCS or dropping to non-scholarship showed that UNI would lose 65-70% of private donations as well as the corporate money that comes from HyVee, John Deere and TrueNorth. Now, obviously, those studies end up saying whatever the person paying for them wants them to say but there is some truth to it.

Long term, the MVFC isn't sustainable. The Dakota schools are impossible to co-exist with and have been forever going back to D2. That's why UNI left the old North Central Conference in the late 70s and went D1. They can not be bargained with because of their massively inflated self-worth.

Ideally, you let them go off and have Summit League football but the problem becomes how on earth do you schedule 6 non-conference games when it's damn near impossible for the better Valley programs (UNI and Illinois State) to get 3? I'm guessing the other issue with Murray is that UNI and Missouri State don't want to be stuck in a division with the 4 Dakota schools and not get to play the MVC teams on a regular basis.

My vote is you say 'f*** 'em'. Take football back fully under the MVC umbrella, add Murray and bring in Youngstown and Robert Morris as affiliates and be done with it. You can live with that 8 team league and you probably get two bids every year.

This seems like a good workable solution. If the OVC totally collapses the MVC can always pick those teams up as affiliates as well if need be. Most of them suck but occasionally have decent years. We have options and assuming this is the holdup we can't allow the Dakotas to hold us hostage especially when the MVC schools did them a HUGE favor by allowing UND into the conference when they didn't have to. If they're not willing to reciprocate they are free to start and lord over their own league. The SL\MVC partnership makes a much stronger league of course but they can both be just fine without one another. And I doubt the MVC teams would lose much money on balance playing a lower quality schedule when the quality of the Olympic sports would be so much better and an even bigger moneymaker.

[SalukiWorld]

The problem with completely disregarding what is best for MVFC is that, despite it officially being separate entity, the football-playing MVC schools have voting power. UNI, SIU, ISU (red), ISU (blue) and MSU are 5/10 votes on any league matter.

As silly as it may seem to undercut a good basketball addition, the football politics always factor in.

Football drives college athletics, even at the FCS level. Basketball is just along for the ride.

You sure about that? I thought FCS football almost universally loses money outside of maybe top of the top schools like NDSU while basketball actually makes money for the MVC. Is it possible that I'm totally wrong in this belief? Also aren't most of the MVC publics on board with Murray State as an addition? I remember hearing Missouri State was solidly in their corner before and I have to assume Northern Iowa would be because of basketball prowess. Illinois State and Indiana State I would guess are either indifferent or supportive (probably the latter though it seems less clear than the former two). The only one I feel like might be concerning is SIU because they are in the same market. But judging from the fans here it would seem like that won't be a problem.

It matters to the Dakota schools in the MVFC that value football over basketball. I'm guessing they're not cool with adding a bottom-feeder that doesn't benefit them at all.