Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

[DoubleJayAlum]

jayball makes good points, though, like most, paints with too broad a brush characterizing all WSU fans as thinking the same, etc. But there are more fun facts and stats from our collective basketball past. It is true that WSU was on a higher plateau in basketball for most of the 60's, part of the 70's and most of the 80's before nose diving into hell for about 13 unlucky years. Interestingly, Creighton was a team WSU beat in the NCAA tournament in both '64 and '65 if I remember correctly, and if you compare WSU's winning percentage against Creighton from '79 through '89, it is almost exactly the same as Creighton's winning percentage against WSU from '90 to '00.

Very true. However, one school committed repeated recruiting violations during its run and the other didn't.

[jayball]

Just to be clear....I'm not trying to say Creighton is better than anyone. And I'm not siting here trying to say UE is the best athletic department outside of Euguene, Oregon and should forever be a Valley member. I just really don't understand how and why SOME shocker fans have picked out UE to be their whipping boy and why SOME Shocker fans act like they are too good for the MVC.

Based on a few measures the Aces rank higher than Drake and InSt, but I haven't heard as much directed at those schools. Is that because UE doesn't have a D1 FF back in the 18th century? Why UE over those two? I'm serious, why should UE be the first one on the chopping block?

I completely agree that WSU is on the verge of what could potentially be a really good run with Marshall. I agree that WSU has amazing fan support and plays in a really round roundhouse. However, I find no evidence that WSU has ever DOMINATED the Valley for significant stretches of time. Clearly WSU has some great basketball tradition, had periods of success, and really capitalized on some of their postseason opportunities. But forgive me for not quite seeing why WSU should be jumping to get out of the MVC, when it is hovering around a .500 conference record all time and has won 6 MVC regular season championships in 65 years. Newsflash you guys aren't the Kansas Jayhawks and you probably never will be unless you add football and join the Big Texas conference and get to 13 Final Fours.

And finally, my point earlier in this thread was that any midwest midmajor school you bring in to replace UE, is going to have a very limited effect on the overall presitge of the Valley and the ability to get multiple bids. No one is going to give a **** if we trade UE for SLU, except maybe Majerus and he might **** in a towel. No one wants that. I've heard others talk about Bulter...and yes they have big time attention now and look pretty good as long as Stevens stays...but five years ago they had an RPI in the 270s and no one knew who they were. What if we add them and Stevens bolts and they hire Randy Smithson? We don't gain anything. IMO, it doesn't matter who the bottom teams are in any conference. The top teams get respect, prestige, free chia pets, by winning, winning alot, and winning in March.

Do you ever hear about Dusquene, La Salle, or Fordham when the analysts are talking A-10 ball and Xavier?
Do you ever hear about San Francisco when they are talking about Gonzaga?
And Butler came out of the Horizon to the National Championship even though the had to play Youngstown State and Wisc Green Bay. Did anyone mention that?

So my point is just go win games and stop acting like spoiled brats. Stop blaming UE for you not getting enough national egojobs. Win and you will get egojobs you want. No one will care about the dorky kid you ate lunch with a few times.

Right now Ali Farokmanesh is somewhere watching tape of the Kansas game and giving himself an egojob. That could be you guys. You can all cuddle up with Ehimen and listen to Eminem's Eight Mile soundtrack.

[DUBulldog]

and Drake essentially has 1970.

Well, Drake made three straight Elite 8's (including one final 4...and it wasn't 1970) in 69-70-71. I know it's ancient history, but can any other current MVC school claim 3 consecutive Elite 8's?

[WSUbballer]

jayball makes good points, though, like most, paints with too broad a brush characterizing all WSU fans as thinking the same, etc. But there are more fun facts and stats from our collective basketball past. It is true that WSU was on a higher plateau in basketball for most of the 60's, part of the 70's and most of the 80's before nose diving into hell for about 13 unlucky years. Interestingly, Creighton was a team WSU beat in the NCAA tournament in both '64 and '65 if I remember correctly, and if you compare WSU's winning percentage against Creighton from '79 through '89, it is almost exactly the same as Creighton's winning percentage against WSU from '90 to '00.

Very true. However, one school committed repeated recruiting violations during its run and the other didn't.

And they got punished it for it, which kept them out of a couple more NCAA Tournaments. What's your point again?

[WSUbballer]

So we're following the A-10 in everything? Or any other conference for that matter? If Butler was traded out for Evansville, you'd be a fool to think it wouldn't change things in the Valley's future. Butler may go back and forth and have up's and down's, but I like their potential over Evansville's. If Butler stays as consistent as Gonzaga, there is no way they hurt the Valley, especially when you compare it to Evansville.

I dunno why you're infatuated with comparing WSU to Evansville because that is not the argument. Has anyone said that we're the Kansas Jayhawks? Stop stuffing the box with things that weren't said. There's a lot more that is brought to the table besides NCAA appearances. There are other things that go into it as well. Surely, you're not that naive to think otherwise.

[jayball]

Baller,

I dont' know if I understand your last post completely. not flaming just didn't follow it.

My understanding of the argument/viewpoint of some WSU fans is that the MVC should boot UE to have a stronger program come in to something better, but I don't know what that is???????...raise the conference RPI?.....guarantee multiple bids for the MVC?.....get more exposure/prestige/national recognition?.....Bring more people to St Louis? What do you want to accomplish with the new member?

I challenge the idea that we could bring in anyone that would significantly alter those things above. Could they be improved marginally, yes but you are also adding another hurdle for WSU to earn championships and danceshoes.

My main point is that we would still be a midwestern nonBCS conference. Based on the last several years, it seems to be less about our conference and more about the success of each individual team that is going to determine NCAA bids. Our conference hasn't dropped dramatically RPIwise since 2006, but we are struggling to get multiple bids. To me that says the individual resumes aren't quite stackng up at least according to the committee. They don't care about conference RPI.

I compared WSU to UE and the MVC to show that while you have $$$, fan support, and facilities that are better than many of those in conference, you don't really have a giant lead in on the court accomplishments, especially in the last 25 years. To me that seems to be a tough place to make demands that everyone else step up their games. I was also trying to point out that in several areas UE has better numbers than Drake and InSt, but I don't see people focusing on those schools as much. Why is that?

My only thought is that some WSU fans have egos that their program can't cash (like some fans of CU and other schools) and UE is the current WSU whipping boy to explain that. I'm looking for another rational explanation if there is one.

[WSUbballer]

jayball,

I think this has taken its course. I don't think you're ever going to be convinced that Evansville should be ousted and I (and others) aren't going to be convinced that they are an equally quality contributor of the conference. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

I just think it's a tad humorous that the only people that have come to UE's side of this argument are a couple of CU fans. It may be what they truly believe and entirely coincidental that they picked the opposite end of some Shocker fans' opinions. Hell, it is on record that even a UE fan believes his team isn't worthy of the Valley. The only other UE fans that have chimed in haven't made an argument about their stay in the conference, only pointing out that their win last year over WSU and their eventual wins this year. And it's not just WSU fans that are in the middle of this issue. Several fans of other schools have also made comments about nixing UE. How come those fans' respective schools haven't been called out? I think this "issue" is more against you than you really think.

UE has provided for some tough individual matchups in recent years. WSU has dominated MSU more this decade than UE and I think it's safe to say MSU has been WAY more relevant than UE has. What does this mean? Absolutely nothing. UE is still bringing up the rear in a lot of sports and ways other than its flailing men's basketball program. If you individually look at WSU vs. UE game-by-game, it may not look that bad. But if you look at the "bigger picture", there's a lot of separation. I'm only bringing WSU into this because it's being brought in by you. But if you look at the majority of schools in this league and compare them in the "bigger picture" against UE, there are BIG differences. Maybe you tend to lean to the "left" on certain issues and this is subconsciously helping to make your case with this one.

About Drake and Indiana State.. well for one, they have much longer histories in the conference and that right there gives them an automatic edge. Drake has been a charter member of the conference. They have some great history even if it is ancient history. You can't take away that. Indiana State has done little but they have still outshone Evansville in the history department. How far has UE ever advanced in the NCAA's?

It's easier to pick out a team that has no history here and is doing little to make up for lost time. In this case, that would be Evansville. Maybe that's why they haven't done anything since their transitional period from the MCC to the Valley. They did well in the MCC but it hasn't translated here. Think it's just a coincidence? I think not.

[jayball]

Baller,

I'd like to see the Valley be as strong as possible, heck I'd like it to be a household name across the country. If I thought that droppig UE and getting Butler would do that, I would support it. I just don't see it being as big of a bump as some others, which have mostly been WSU fans.

But if you look at the majority of schools in this league and compare them in the "bigger picture" against UE, there are BIG differences.

This is where I'm trying to understand. What is the bigger picture around UE? What is different about UE than Drake and InSt? Football? Resources? Fan support? If it is just the ancient history I'm not sure I buy that as a good reason to force them out. The source much of the UE stuff seemed to be shockers, so it appeared to be partially motivated by some perception that WSU was being held back by UE perhaps because of a few bad losses. That I don't buy.

Evile was much more successful in the Horizon League and hasn't been able to match that success in the Valley. If they want to move good for them. If I was one of their fans I would want to go back there. I just don't think the MVC automatically takes a big jump or gets some immeadiate boost by them leaving. You see them as an anchor for WSU and the Valley somehow. I just see them as irrelevant since they've come on board.

To make noise the Valley needs 3-4 very solid programs to win repeatedly each year. You want to bring in someone else to help with that. I'd rather it be WSU, CU, UNI, ect that does it. I don't need Butler to come in here and compete for MVC titles, national attention, and spots in the dance I want CU to be battling for #1 each year, winning as many as possbile and getting to the dance a lot. IMHO, adding Butler for UE doesn't automatically help CU accomplish that because they don't automatically increase our bid number.

Does that sound communist or something?

I do like underdogs. I feel like our entire conference is full of underdogs. That is why I enjoy Valleyball. In this case I see no effect from UE being in the conference on CU's ability to be successful.

I think you would have to blow up the MVC entirely to get the type of conference some WSU fans want.

Trouble is....if the MVC blows up....it could be hard for WSU to find a spot fitting their stature. Which nonfootball D1 league do you want to join?

America East Conference
Atlantic Sun Conference
Atlantic 10 Conference
Big West Conference
Horizon League
Independents
Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
Missouri Valley Conference
The Summit League
West Coast Conference

[Ace Dad]

Baller, let it go. Please.

[WSUbballer]

Baller, let it go. Please.

Excuse me?

I didn't rehash this thing to the top of the board. That was done by someone else.


Please don't call me out just because I want to see you in the OVC.