Wichita State at Illinois State on Sunday 7pm

[iSASO]

From the NCAA rule book:

Section 26. Fighting

Art. 7. When during the course of play (live ball), an individual strikes an
opponent with the hand, elbow, arm, foot, knee or leg in a nonconfrontational
manner but the act is excessive or severe, it shall be ruled as a flagrant 2 personal
foul and not a fighting action. When a defined body part is used to strike an
opponent but the contact is not severe or excessive, a judgment shall be made by
the official as to whether the contact is a flagrant 1 personal foul.

The refs were within their power to call a flagrant 1 foul. With what ESPN put on the screen (definition of flagrant fouls) I didn't think it could be a flagrant foul, but with this definition I believed they made the correct call.

Just heard from a former official and current supervisor/evaluator of officials. He believes that if the officials would have stopped play at the time of the infraction that a Flagrant 2 probably would have been called, but the fact that they waited until Marshall asked for review resulted in the infraction being toned down to Flagrant 1. He thought they handled it pretty well and that common sense prevailed. ISU fans might consider themselves fortunate that Carmichael won't be suspended for the next game.

[Ricardo del Rio]

From the NCAA rule book:

Section 26. Fighting

Art. 7. When during the course of play (live ball), an individual strikes an
opponent with the hand, elbow, arm, foot, knee or leg in a nonconfrontational
manner but the act is excessive or severe, it shall be ruled as a flagrant 2 personal
foul and not a fighting action. When a defined body part is used to strike an
opponent but the contact is not severe or excessive, a judgment shall be made by
the official as to whether the contact is a flagrant 1 personal foul.

The refs were within their power to call a flagrant 1 foul. With what ESPN put on the screen (definition of flagrant fouls) I didn't think it could be a flagrant foul, but with this definition I believed they made the correct call.

If only Red could speak with such clarity.

[GoShockers89]

I will do the Redbird fans a favor and attempt to shift the discussion to what happened after the Carmichael Flying Scissorkick.

WSU still trailed by 5 (!) and ISUr had complete control. The Redbird defense then proceeded to give up a WIDE OPEN three to Demetric Williams. Moments later, a Redbird guard tried to dribble into a corner trap, only to miss the floor and strike his left testicle with the basketball, sending it scuttling out of bounds. No biggie, still a 2 point lead with 25 seconds left.

Wichita State, who runs some of the worst game-ending plays in the NCAA, then gets a quality look for Cleanthony Early and drills a 3 with 4.8 seconds left. Officials review the time and generously award ISUr 5.2 seconds, despite replay clearly showing that no more than 5.0 should be granted. ISUr then gets a breakaway for Carmichael, who opts to plow into Carl Hall instead of pulling up for a wide open 15 footer. Shot clangs, game over.

Discuss.

[WuShockNation]

Here's the deadspin video. No idea what Jackie was doing, but in super slow mo I'm not sure here ever made contact with his face. Almost looked like a kick to the chest.

http://deadspin.com/5984945/if-you-real ... ck-rebound

it was in the chest, but that is prolly why they called it a flagrant 1

The chest, by definition, is not above the shoulders. The rule is in place to protact against concussions. Total BS.

so kicking someone in the chest is ok in your eyes?

[jwa123]

Regardless of what Jackie did, Marshall is a class act.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Red,

Since you are so knowledgable about the rules, please tell us what the rules say about hanging on the rim and gesturing. Are those acts covered by the rules.

Just wondering.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Regardless of what Jackie did, Marshall is a class act.

Just exactly what did Coach Marshall do or say that leads you to believe that he is classless.

Please provide exacting detail.

Thank you.

[Aargh]

The officiating error was not making the call at the time the violation occurred. A coach can ask for a review of a flagrant at the next dead ball, but any play between the flagrant and when the clock stopped stays in the game.

By missing the original call, the officials actually caused about 5 seconds to run off the clock, and gave IlSU 2 FT's. The officials did not rob IlSU of a win. There was actually some home cookin' in the calls made (or not made - or not made timely) in the last minute.

The officials, at their discretion, can downgrade a flagrant 2 to a flagrant 1. That's what was done. I suspect the league might be interested in looking at some film. Carmichael might still get a suspension. Looking right at Cotton, then kicking him, and staring him down while kicking him just really looks bad. If he had looked away, he might have gotten away with it.

[Aargh]

Regardless of what Jackie did, Marshall is a class act.

Just exactly what did Coach Marshall do or say that leads you to believe that he is classless.

Please provide exacting detail.

Thank you.

Marshall allowed one of his assistants to object to fans throwing things at them from the stands. that's classless!

There's a bit of bad blood over the Dana Ford situation. When Ford was offered the WSU job, one of the conditions was that Ford promised to stay at least two years, and then did not. Throw in Wilkins kicking Stutz in the grapes last year in St. Louis, and things are going down hill pretty rapidly between IlSU and WSU.

[bluejays89]

Now I remember why I stay away from mvcfans...valleytalk...mvcsports/forum....or whatever it will be called next week. The jealousy of our program is deafening. We know you all want us to lose, but you can thank us for selling tickets for you. So tonight was the "Redout" probably the most tickets sold all year. Creighton will have the "Whiteout" most tickets sold all year. UNI had a "Whiteout" most tickets sold all year...same story everywhere we go. I'm sure the announcers and refs were paid in advance to back WSU if Carmichael kicked anyone in the face/chest/balls wherever. I mean really it had to be an accident, when I jump I karate kick my leg straight out into someone's face and stare them down as I'm doing it.

Who had a blackout when Creighton came to town? Ohhhhh yeah Wichita did. And looking at the attendance numbers it looks like Creighton drew larger crowds at UNI, Evansville, Drake, SIU, MSU, and Illinois State. But that's just the media bias right?

Great comeback last night.