MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team league

[municup14]

Have you wondered why we're looking to add 2 teams.
It would be a unbalanced league..So my theory is,one another team
Will leave next year.Or two,another team will be added next year.
Just wondering

[Redhawk]

Have you wondered why we're looking to add 2 teams.
It would be a unbalanced league..So my theory is,one another team
Will leave next year.Or two,another team will be added next year.
Just wondering

I kind of got that feeling after reading the last paragraph of the Valley's statement regarding
getting some in house issues resolved before adding any teams.

Does that mean one or two other teams leaving?
Evansville to the Horizon, ISUb to the OVC?

[Valleyball]

I think the future of the Valley depends on two of three between Bradley, Mo State, and SIU turning back into top programs. Not sure I feel very optimistic about that. (And I am a Bradley fan)

I would take Belmont, Murray State, and Valpo if we could. But that won't fix the Valley.

[Redhawk]

I would take Belmont, Murray State, and Valpo if we could. But that won't fix the Valley.

Then why do we need to add them?

[uniftw]

Omaha NB, (Creighton,remember them?) population 434,353.

Wichita KS population 386,552.

Murray, KY. population 17,741

Next question?

Oh yes Carbondale is SO much bigger. Or Terre Haute Indiana? Sorry not buying it.

The size of the town should have nothing to do with it. Look at Ole Miss in the SEC. They are in a town of only 20,000.

I'd personally like to have a team with a fan base than a team from a large town that gets absolutely no coverage due to pro teams or power 5 teams in the same city or the people just don't care. A 20, or whatever is being talked about, game conference schedule would benefit us because we usually have to schedule some D2 schools to come to Murray to be schedule fillers and that hurts attendance.

Ann Arbor is smaller than Waterloo/Cedar Falls.

A look at current MVC markets

Peoria - 373k metro (141st in country)
Des Moines - 623k metro (91st in country) - nearly 1/3 of all Iowa lives in this one metro
Evansville - 314k metro (156 in country)
Normal - 190k (225th in nation)
Terre Haute - 171k (227th in country)
Chicago - 9.5m (3rd in country)
Springfield - 458k (113th in country)
Cedar Falls - 171k (244th in country)
Carbondale - 126k (310th in country)

Funny thing is - the smaller cities/metros have the teams with the most success - Cedar Falls as a town is 40K. Normal is 50k. Des Moines proper is 210k. Peoria is 120k. Chicago proper is 2.7m. Evansville is 125k.

It would appear city/market size doesn't matter for success. If you want to argue TV's added then no one in Illinois, not or Valpo or UMKC or most of what UNO, etc... are going to be the addition. We already have the "market saturation" we are going to have there. Belmont, Murray State, UALR, UTA, NDSU, SDSU, etc... are your adds. Also, we don't really have a TV deal. We do but we don't. It revolves around ESPN3. There isnt much for "exposure" to add.

[BEARZ77]

I think the future of the Valley depends on two of three between Bradley, Mo State, and SIU turning back into top programs. Not sure I feel very optimistic about that. (And I am a Bradley fan)

I would take Belmont, Murray State, and Valpo if we could. But that won't fix the Valley.

I've always said that for the Valley to be strong, the 3 you mention[SIU/MSU/Bradley] along with ISUr all have to be solid, no disrespect to UNI or anyone else. I do believe they all are in position to start a climb back up. Barry is solid if not great and he has stabilized that program, I like Bradley's coach and how he is rebuilding that roster and instilling his system. And while I am a huge Lusk detractor, he continues to build a solid roster and may win more consistently despite himself, or after this year, at least leave a good nucleus to his successor. And MSU despite their financial difficulties has done a great job with facilities and infrastructure and has an arena and the support facilities to be very competitive with anyone. The program has shown in the past when in good shape, it will draw 7,500-8,000 nightly, and only Bradley and at times SIU, among the remaining MVC members can claim that or better in any recent memory. I think ISUr is solid right now and you can count on them being a upper level D-1 program consistently for at least the short term, so now UNI just needs to be UNI and these other 3 step up. I also think LOC looks solid on the court, I just don't know if they can garner the interest and support to move to another level with their program. I hope they can.

[uniftw]

Have you wondered why we're looking to add 2 teams.
It would be a unbalanced league..So my theory is,one another team
Will leave next year.Or two,another team will be added next year.
Just wondering

I kind of got that feeling after reading the last paragraph of the Valley's statement regarding
getting some in house issues resolved before adding any teams.

Does that mean one or two other teams leaving?
Evansville to the Horizon, ISUb to the OVC?

If it involves a team leaving within the next two-ish years I would put my money on ISUb to the OVC, Missouri State to the Southland. I don't see the Sun Belt for MSU. The funding is an issue and the SBC just booted two teams - western teams - at the end of their affiliate agreement. The replaced one of them with Coastal Carolina. The additions the SBC has made the last few years? App State, Georgia Souther, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State. Noticing a trend they are building? By adding CCU they moved to 12 football members, by then dropping NMSU and Idaho they went to 10 members. There is now a provision that allows a conference with less than 12 members to have a conference title game. The Sun Belt isn't about to add more football members - especially that far West.

Meanwhile the Soutlhand is currently at 11 football and 13 basketball members. Odd numbers are strange for scheduling. Going SLC likely makes MSU the best all around athletic department in the conference. They are now a massive outlier - especially depending on the additions the MVC makes. They'd be a bit of an outlier in the SLC too, but those schoos are 100% Texas, Arkansas or western LA based. The largest budget in the SLC is 15.8m, and that belongs to Lamar. They range anywhere from 5 million to 15 million. If budget issues are a concern going SLC and no longer being part of the "rat race" that is MVC/MVFC would be a massive boost for them. They could trickle back from 25 million to 16-20 million. Be the big dog in the conference.

If some combination of Valpo, Murray State and Belmont are added there is no chance that Evansville goes anywhere.


No, what gets interesting regarding the Sun Belt is that they are at 12 full time members and 2 are non-football. That helped before with the affiliates and keeping scheduling easier. It's pretty easy to schedule now, but the two non-football schools are now western edge outliers in UT-Arlington and UALittle Rock. I haven't seen any "official" source listing those two, but I have seen people I consider knowledgeable and realtively well connected saying they deserve a look. I'm not anymore sold on them than Valpo or Murray State. UALR has only a budget of 11 million and a basketball budget of 2.2. Granted they don't have football adding to that number. I guess an FCS program puts them at 15-16m and an FBS program somewhere around 20-22m. I'm so used to looking at departments with football that I need to remember that some times. UT-Arlington is a larger study body and similar athletic budget, but only 1.5m on basketball.

I would guess they would be discussed, but it would be a measure to "keep" MSU and likely means Valpo, Belmont and Murray State all said no. If those three all say no I think we need to stay at 9 and focus on making our s*** programs get better for once.

[Redhawk]

Hey uniftw...Nice breakdown of the other conference options for MSU! They are kinda in the same boat as ISUr and UNI when it comes to going FBS. There's only one option for each school, MAC (UNI, ISUr) or SBC (MSU) and neither of these leagues seem that eager to expand.

I agree that the most likely to leave would be ISUb. They are way behind in funding and facilities
to compete in the MVC and MVFC. Seems like the OVC might be a better fit.

[uniftw]

I think the future of the Valley depends on two of three between Bradley, Mo State, and SIU turning back into top programs. Not sure I feel very optimistic about that. (And I am a Bradley fan)

I would take Belmont, Murray State, and Valpo if we could. But that won't fix the Valley.

I've always said that for the Valley to be strong, the 3 you mention[SIU/MSU/Bradley] along with ISUr all have to be solid, no disrespect to UNI or anyone else. I do believe they all are in position to start a climb back up. Barry is solid if not great and he has stabilized that program, I like Bradley's coach and how he is rebuilding that roster and instilling his system. And while I am a huge Lusk detractor, he continues to build a solid roster and may win more consistently despite himself, or after this year, at least leave a good nucleus to his successor. And MSU despite their financial difficulties has done a great job with facilities and infrastructure and has an arena and the support facilities to be very competitive with anyone. The program has shown in the past when in good shape, it will draw 7,500-8,000 nightly, and only Bradley and at times SIU, among the remaining MVC members can claim that or better in any recent memory. I think ISUr is solid right now and you can count on them being a upper level D-1 program consistently for at least the short term, so now UNI just needs to be UNI and these other 3 step up. I also think LOC looks solid on the court, I just don't know if they can garner the interest and support to move to another level with their program. I hope they can.

I mostly agree with this.

UNI will be what UNI is as long as Jake is here - and there is no indication he is leaving. This past season was an anomaly that left even Jake confused. Say what you want about our athleticism - it's never been "raw talent athleticism". Say what you will about recruiting - UNI is landing, and in on, better recruits than ever before. I expect UNI to sign a top 100 recruit for the 2018 class. UNI will almost always be a top 100 program.

Illinois State has shown the ability to recruit raw athleticism under Muller. He is growing as a coach, but I'm not sure I trust that model long term. We need to ride the wave while we can though. Hawkins, Wills, Lee are all gone. Those three were half of the Redbird points per game this past season, about 37% of the rebounds.The top 2 3 point shooters and the 4th best 3 point shooter. 2 of the 3 started all 35 games and the other 32 of the 35. There are now just 3 players who played over 20 MPG left on the roster - and 2 of them are gone after next year. As a matter of fact, looking at the stats, those three plus 2 juniors (McIntosh and Clayton) were about 80% of that stats. Young guys will start to play more and get more time, but for all of the "How will UNI replace Morgan and Ashton talk" there really should be a "Um...Illinois State has almost zero proven players outside of 2 seniors and one other player (Phil Fayne). Their long term window looks shaky". I still don't think Muller is a good in game coach, guys like Lee and Hawkins just bailed him out.


What Barry has brought SIU back to is good. I think we need to start asking how much futher Barry can/will take them. Everyone in the Valley loves Barry, and it may not be all his issue at SIU if he can't take them higher, but allowing a coach to stay on too long, plateau and then drop the program back has just happened at SIU. Do they let it happen because of money or because people like Barry? Or, do they take action if needed. Look at their roster and he loses Sean O'Brien, Leo Vincent and Mike Rodriguez from this year team. Everything I just typed about the guys ISUr is losing applies to these guys. After next year Thik Bohl and Tyler Smithpeters are gone (I just saw Smithpeters got his medical approved). After those two there is a big drop in stats returning down to Aaron Cook, who played just 10 MPG. The hope must be that Armon Fletcher can carry the program for 2 years and pieces are in place around him. Given that ISU was "meh" last year and they are losing almost all of their key pieces by the end of this coming season, how long does Barry get to show he is still growing the program?

Bradley? I actually think in a year or two they will be borderline solid, if not more. I think Wardle is the right guy. This coming year they have 3 seniors, 6 juniors, and I'm not sure how the freshman from last year are split. I give Wardle 2 more full years before I start to judge his ability to build Bradley back.

MSU has the talent. They have the facility. They have the resources. They have everything except a competent in game coach.

Truthfully the conference needs UNI, ISUr, MSU and Bradley to be "the group". Those 4 get to a top 100-125 teams with two or three of them running the top 50-75 and we are in a good spot if we stay at 9 or 10 or 11 or 12. Getting Belmont or Valpo would help with name recognition as well. They may be "small" programs, but the talking heads know the names. People who have done brackets know the names. That helps as well.

We need 5 top 130-140 programs. We also can't have 2 or 3 270 or worse programs.

[uniftw]

Hey uniftw...Nice breakdown of the other conference options for MSU! They are kinda in the same boat as ISUr and UNI when it comes to going FBS. There's only one option for each school, MAC (UNI, ISUr) or SBC (MSU) and neither of these leagues seem that eager to expand.

I agree that the most likely to leave would be ISUb. They are way behind in funding and facilities
to compete in the MVC and MVFC. Seems like the OVC might be a better fit.

Yup. I can't speak for all UNI fans but the concensus always has been do not go FBS unless it's good for basketball. That hasn't been,and doesn't look to be an option for a while. I can only go off of the little bit of ISUr I've read online, but they seem more eager for an FBS move than UNI, even if it does nothing for basketball.

With how the MAC is going with their football scheduling due to ESPN, that's really not attractive at all. No Saturday games in November for anyone. Only a handful the second half of October. What started off as a great novelty with their MACtion weeknight games has not been morphed into a disgusting creature by ESPN looking to fill time slots with live sports rather than reruns of talk or smaller sports.

MACtion basketball isn't much/any better than the MVC. So when paired with the football constraints it's not entirely desirable as it stands right now.

CUSA is a massive footprint, but could(ve) been a nice home for ISUr and UNI but the basketball piece is such a dumpster fire now that it isn't even worth listening too.