When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Saluki 4 Life » February 26th, 2019, 11:36 am

GoSIU88 wrote:
Majik45 wrote:
ahunte1 wrote:I agree with the NIT thing and I still figure there's an advantage to being the 1 or 2 and playing a team on very little rest. But yeah, it's pretty much impossible to sit down and figure out what seed gives the best path for any given team.


History says getting out of the play-in game is huge, as play-in teams are now 1-41 all time against the #1 and #2 seeds. Other than that, this is by far the widest open the tournament has been in YEARS. Per Dave Reynold's (Bradley beat reporter for Peoria Paper), this will be the first time in 111 years that the league champ has 6 losses in conference.


The play-in games didn't start until 1997. Before that only 8 teams made the tournament. I believe Wichita won as a 7 seed once and that's the only time a 1 or 2 seed didn't win their first round game.

Context is important though... How often was the 1 seed a dominant SIU/Creighton/WSU type team? None of the potential 1 seeds are top teams this year. I think that is why the play in game used to matter so much. Your prize was playing a team that was nationally good, this year your prize will definitely be playing a beatable team. As evidence by the fact that the winner of the conference this year will have the most losses in conference ever. No disrespect intended to those at the top. I think it has had little to do with playing the night before and more to do with who was waiting the next day. Put it this way, if ISUR gets the 8 seed somehow and plays Drake/Loyola/UNI/MSU I would not be surprised if ISUR was favored against all but Loyola.
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby sivert » February 26th, 2019, 11:37 am

I've been thinking that it would be a good rule that no team tied for 1st has to play Thursday night. So if there was a case where #7 was tied with #1 (but seeded #7 on tiebreakers, then #10 would simply not make the tournament). There would still be a 8-9 game on Thursday. I just think that in that case, one team shouldn't get the burden of a Thursday night game when really it's a 1-7 tossup.
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Saluki 4 Life » February 26th, 2019, 11:39 am

I had not thought about the NIT though... That is a good point. I agree with that. I just meant from the perspective of winning Arch Madness.
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Majik45 » February 26th, 2019, 12:18 pm

GoSIU88 wrote:
Majik45 wrote:
ahunte1 wrote:I agree with the NIT thing and I still figure there's an advantage to being the 1 or 2 and playing a team on very little rest. But yeah, it's pretty much impossible to sit down and figure out what seed gives the best path for any given team.


History says getting out of the play-in game is huge, as play-in teams are now 1-41 all time against the #1 and #2 seeds. Other than that, this is by far the widest open the tournament has been in YEARS. Per Dave Reynold's (Bradley beat reporter for Peoria Paper), this will be the first time in 111 years that the league champ has 6 losses in conference.


The play-in games didn't start until 1997. Before that only 8 teams made the tournament. I believe Wichita won as a 7 seed once and that's the only time a 1 or 2 seed didn't win their first round game.


Right, 2 games a year for 21 years means they are 1-41 all time. It was Bradley as the #7 seed in 1998 that was the only team that ever won on Friday (Saturday back in the day) as they upset #2 seed Creighton that year.

Wichita came close as the #7 seed to beating Creighton, but got beat on a buzzer beater by Booker Woodfox if I remember right. There was a lot of controversy on this shot as the clock supposedly did not start right away.
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby uniguy » February 26th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Majik45 wrote:
GoSIU88 wrote:
Majik45 wrote:
History says getting out of the play-in game is huge, as play-in teams are now 1-41 all time against the #1 and #2 seeds. Other than that, this is by far the widest open the tournament has been in YEARS. Per Dave Reynold's (Bradley beat reporter for Peoria Paper), this will be the first time in 111 years that the league champ has 6 losses in conference.


The play-in games didn't start until 1997. Before that only 8 teams made the tournament. I believe Wichita won as a 7 seed once and that's the only time a 1 or 2 seed didn't win their first round game.


Right, 2 games a year for 21 years means they are 1-41 all time. It was Bradley as the #7 seed in 1998 that was the only team that ever won on Friday (Saturday back in the day) as they upset #2 seed Creighton that year.

Wichita came close as the #7 seed to beating Creighton, but got beat on a buzzer beater by Booker Woodfox if I remember right. There was a lot of controversy on this shot as the clock supposedly did not start right away.


This will be my 16th year of Arch Madness and play-in teams are 0-30 in the quarterfinals in the years I've gone. There have been a handful of close calls but no one has gotten over the hump.

I think it was 2009, when #1 UNI went toe-to-toe with Indiana State and Wichita nearly beat #2 Creighton but lost on a controversial final shot. Those were both four-loss co-champs so it could be a sign of what could happen this year.

I feel like I remember a top-seeded Missouri State team needing a furious late rally to hold of SIU the last time they won the regular season champ. Probably 2011. Loyola gave #1 Wichita a run a few years ago IIRC. Last year both play-in teams gave it a good run.

But for the most part, the 1s and 2s have handled their business with little issue. I think this year could be different. We'll see.
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Blers » February 26th, 2019, 1:06 pm

uniguy wrote: Loyola gave #1 Wichita a run a few years ago IIRC. Last year both play-in teams gave it a good run.


Oof my heart. Loyola was up 1 with 1:57 left before baker hit an off balance fadeaway 3. Such a fun game.
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Hacksaw » February 27th, 2019, 9:06 pm

The final 32 scenarios:
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Go4Valley » February 27th, 2019, 10:08 pm

I totally agree with 1 or 2 seed having to look out. Valpo and Indiana St winner will get the 1 seed at 12noon Friday March 8th. Valpo is capable of pulling the upset

We dont know who will play Evansville in the nite cap but no matter who it is they can cause problems for Loyola or Drake
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby MSUDuo » February 27th, 2019, 10:23 pm

Go4Valley wrote:I totally agree with 1 or 2 seed having to look out. Valpo and Indiana St winner will get the 1 seed at 12noon Friday March 8th. Valpo is capable of pulling the upset

We dont know who will play Evansville in the nite cap but no matter who it is they can cause problems for Loyola or Drake


But not MSU! Bazinga! :dance:
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Re: When do we get our first Hacksaw graph?

Postby Go4Valley » February 27th, 2019, 11:48 pm

MSUDuo wrote:
Go4Valley wrote:I totally agree with 1 or 2 seed having to look out. Valpo and Indiana St winner will get the 1 seed at 12noon Friday March 8th. Valpo is capable of pulling the upset

We dont know who will play Evansville in the nite cap but no matter who it is they can cause problems for Loyola or Drake


But not MSU! Bazinga! :dance:


LOL I know Bears fans happy no PIG like 2018...but can you make it to Saturday?
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