MSU to Conference USA?

[Bluejay09Bear06]

Ok, this "Lusk has a Master's Degree" thing is an inside joke on the Bears board that was never funny to begin with, and is even less funny now. Let's just put it to sleep now.

[uniftw]

Champ, I thought about your question and came up with two schools: the University at Buffalo and Florida Atlantic. Buffalo had apparently only had one winning season in 1AA when they moved up and they won the MAC in 2008. FAU was only 1AA for around 4 years but was mediocre before they moved up under Schnellenburger. I understand your point and I think we'd be going against the grain but I have faith.

Dude, you are terrible at defending your point. Of all the teams that have moved FCS to FBS you pick FAU and Buffalo to defend your point? Wow, you are dense. You could have at least gone Boise State, Idaho, and Marshal' circa 10 years ago. Even those three teams don't really fit MSU though, as they all had amazing fan support at the FCS level, won national titles at the FCS level, and were consistently a top tier FCS team. Heck, since Marshall left the FCS conference that is known as the MAC to join CUSA they haven't done s***, and have been one of the worst FBS teams in the nation. Boise State's success has been amazing, unprecedented, and will never be duplicated. Idaho had one magical season, but has been below Marshall in terms of quality of the team at the FBS level.

However, since you brought up Buffalo (who like Idaho had one good season) and FAU (who was only FCS for 4 years because they had the goal of being a start up to FBS program but that isn't allowed so they had to be FCS for a while - just like Georgia State and Texas-San Antonio are doing right now.

FAU:
All Time Record: 57-63
All Time FCS Record: 26-21 (record not including playoffs 24-20)
All Time FBS Record: 31-42 (in the absolute worst FBS conference...a conference that ranks below 4 or 5 FCS conferences)
1 Sun Belt Conference co-Champ (2007)

FAU only has 6 wins against FBS teams that aren't in the Sun Belt...the only conference they have any success against is C-USA, and most specifically their worst team UAB (2-1).

FAU averaged 14,024 per home game last season.

Buffalo:
All Time Record - 360-478-28
All Time FBS Record -32-88
All Time Winning FBS Seasons - 1 (2008, 8-6)
1 MAC Conference Championship (2008)

Hell, going through all of Buffalo's seasons they have 27 winning record seasons (1 since 1996, 2 since 1986), and 51 seasons with losing records.
Buffalo Averaged 12,980 per home game last season.


The fact is MSU isn't even as good as those two were at the FCS level, don't have the fan support those two did at the FCS level, have half of the future potential of those two programs, half of the targeted market that those two have.


Let's look at some other FCS programs that have moved to the FBS, tell me how much success they have had...keep in mind most of these programs have been very successful (national and conference titles), and were very supported. Tell me how much you know/care about them at the FBS level...hell, tell me if you even knew they were FBS. I'll limit the moves to 1990 or later

Alabama-Birmingham - 1996 Sun Belt
Arkansas State - 1990 Sun Belt
Boise State - 1996 WAC
Central Florida - 1996 CUSA
Connecticut - 2000 Big East (only because the BE bid did they move up, and have had success)
FIU - 2005 (Much like FAU, start up program, only FCS due to NCAA rules)
Idaho - 1997 Sun Belt/WAC
Louisiana-Monroe - Sun Belt
Marshall - 1997 MAC/CUSA
Middle Tennessee State - 1999 Sun Belt
Nevada - 1992 WAC
North Texas - 1995 Sun Belt
Troy - 2002 Sun Belt
Western Kentucky - 2009 Sun Belt


Out of all of those schools only UCF, BSU, UCONN, and Nevada don't have to loop hole the crap out of the minimum attendance rule.

Hell, outside of Boise State, Marshall right after their move but not since 2002, and UCONN as of late, have any of those schools actually done anything on a consistent basis. To be honest, the only reason UCONN moved up was the invite to a BCS conference and big time donors to get the program going.


Here are the computer rankings for football conferences last year (the previous years look very very similar with some minor 1 or 2 spot movements)

1. PAC 10
2. SEC
3. B12
4. ACC
5. B10
6. 1-A INDY
7. Big East
8. MWC
9. WAC
10. C-USA
11. CAA (FCS)
12. Southern (FCS)
13. MAC
14. Big Sky (FCS)
15. MVFC (FCS)
16. Sun Belt

If one were to look at the data and compare C-USA down to the Sun Belt you would see there is very little difference between all of the conferences listed. The best FCS conferences are on part with the C-USA, MAC, not far off of the WAC, and well ahead of the Sun Belt.

If the MSU fan base doesn't care about "rivalries" that have been going on with other MVC teams in football for years (and they tie into the other sports), how do you expect us to believe that you will all of a sudden care about playing Marshall, Eastern Carolina, Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulane, Rice, UTEP, UAB, SMU, Houston, UCF, and Tulsa? The move makes no sense at all.

MSU is f'ed in the a right now for money, and the move would require 22 more men's scholarships, at least that many women's scholarships (probably more), major renovations in the football facility, and a ton of other costs that aren't widely publicized.

You keep telling us that no one cares about the FCS, and that the big time school fans call the FCS D2, and to an extent you are correct. However, the vast majority of those same fans you are referencing say the exact same thing about the MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, etc... Those conference do not mean s*** at the FBS level other than giving ESPN some football games to show between December 20th and 27th when the games that people actually care about are on.

Moving to the MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt brings you zero added notoriety, zero extra respect, zero extra cash, zero anything really other than maybe a boost in moral until the first or second season of finishing last in the conference. You finish at the bottom of the MVFC, how do you expect us to believe you are going to compete for anything at the next level (other than maybe the Sun Belt).

I could keep going, but I've written three pages worth of a post (in MS Word), and need to accomplish something on my one day off for the next two weeks.

[WSUbballer]

uniftw, that was a very nice post. Thanks for the contributions.

However, the drive is still very well alive and kicking:
http://www.msubearnation.com/forum/show ... ive-To-FBS

[panther-state]

Champ, I thought about your question and came up with two schools: the University at Buffalo and Florida Atlantic. Buffalo had apparently only had one winning season in 1AA when they moved up and they won the MAC in 2008. FAU was only 1AA for around 4 years but was mediocre before they moved up under Schnellenburger. I understand your point and I think we'd be going against the grain but I have faith.

Dude, you are terrible at defending your point. Of all the teams that have moved FCS to FBS you pick FAU and Buffalo to defend your point? Wow, you are dense. You could have at least gone Boise State, Idaho, and Marshal' circa 10 years ago. Even those three teams don't really fit MSU though, as they all had amazing fan support at the FCS level, won national titles at the FCS level, and were consistently a top tier FCS team. Heck, since Marshall left the FCS conference that is known as the MAC to join CUSA they haven't done s***, and have been one of the worst FBS teams in the nation. Boise State's success has been amazing, unprecedented, and will never be duplicated. Idaho had one magical season, but has been below Marshall in terms of quality of the team at the FBS level.

However, since you brought up Buffalo (who like Idaho had one good season) and FAU (who was only FCS for 4 years because they had the goal of being a start up to FBS program but that isn't allowed so they had to be FCS for a while - just like Georgia State and Texas-San Antonio are doing right now.

FAU:
All Time Record: 57-63
All Time FCS Record: 26-21 (record not including playoffs 24-20)
All Time FBS Record: 31-42 (in the absolute worst FBS conference...a conference that ranks below 4 or 5 FCS conferences)
1 Sun Belt Conference co-Champ (2007)

FAU only has 6 wins against FBS teams that aren't in the Sun Belt...the only conference they have any success against is C-USA, and most specifically their worst team UAB (2-1).

FAU averaged 14,024 per home game last season.

Buffalo:
All Time Record - 360-478-28
All Time FBS Record -32-88
All Time Winning FBS Seasons - 1 (2008, 8-6)
1 MAC Conference Championship (2008)

Hell, going through all of Buffalo's seasons they have 27 winning record seasons (1 since 1996, 2 since 1986), and 51 seasons with losing records.
Buffalo Averaged 12,980 per home game last season.


The fact is MSU isn't even as good as those two were at the FCS level, don't have the fan support those two did at the FCS level, have half of the future potential of those two programs, half of the targeted market that those two have.


Let's look at some other FCS programs that have moved to the FBS, tell me how much success they have had...keep in mind most of these programs have been very successful (national and conference titles), and were very supported. Tell me how much you know/care about them at the FBS level...hell, tell me if you even knew they were FBS. I'll limit the moves to 1990 or later

Alabama-Birmingham - 1996 Sun Belt
Arkansas State - 1990 Sun Belt
Boise State - 1996 WAC
Central Florida - 1996 CUSA
Connecticut - 2000 Big East (only because the BE bid did they move up, and have had success)
FIU - 2005 (Much like FAU, start up program, only FCS due to NCAA rules)
Idaho - 1997 Sun Belt/WAC
Louisiana-Monroe - Sun Belt
Marshall - 1997 MAC/CUSA
Middle Tennessee State - 1999 Sun Belt
Nevada - 1992 WAC
North Texas - 1995 Sun Belt
Troy - 2002 Sun Belt
Western Kentucky - 2009 Sun Belt


Out of all of those schools only UCF, BSU, UCONN, and Nevada don't have to loop hole the crap out of the minimum attendance rule.

Hell, outside of Boise State, Marshall right after their move but not since 2002, and UCONN as of late, have any of those schools actually done anything on a consistent basis. To be honest, the only reason UCONN moved up was the invite to a BCS conference and big time donors to get the program going.


Here are the computer rankings for football conferences last year (the previous years look very very similar with some minor 1 or 2 spot movements)

1. PAC 10
2. SEC
3. B12
4. ACC
5. B10
6. 1-A INDY
7. Big East
8. MWC
9. WAC
10. C-USA
11. CAA (FCS)
12. Southern (FCS)
13. MAC
14. Big Sky (FCS)
15. MVFC (FCS)
16. Sun Belt

If one were to look at the data and compare C-USA down to the Sun Belt you would see there is very little difference between all of the conferences listed. The best FCS conferences are on part with the C-USA, MAC, not far off of the WAC, and well ahead of the Sun Belt.

If the MSU fan base doesn't care about "rivalries" that have been going on with other MVC teams in football for years (and they tie into the other sports), how do you expect us to believe that you will all of a sudden care about playing Marshall, Eastern Carolina, Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulane, Rice, UTEP, UAB, SMU, Houston, UCF, and Tulsa? The move makes no sense at all.

MSU is f'ed in the a right now for money, and the move would require 22 more men's scholarships, at least that many women's scholarships (probably more), major renovations in the football facility, and a ton of other costs that aren't widely publicized.

You keep telling us that no one cares about the FCS, and that the big time school fans call the FCS D2, and to an extent you are correct. However, the vast majority of those same fans you are referencing say the exact same thing about the MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, etc... Those conference do not mean s*** at the FBS level other than giving ESPN some football games to show between December 20th and 27th when the games that people actually care about are on.

Moving to the MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt brings you zero added notoriety, zero extra respect, zero extra cash, zero anything really other than maybe a boost in moral until the first or second season of finishing last in the conference. You finish at the bottom of the MVFC, how do you expect us to believe you are going to compete for anything at the next level (other than maybe the Sun Belt).

I could keep going, but I've written three pages worth of a post (in MS Word), and need to accomplish something on my one day off for the next two weeks.

Kaboom, roasted

[valleychamp]

uniftw, that was a very nice post. Thanks for the contributions.

However, the drive is still very well alive and kicking:
http://www.msubearnation.com/forum/show ... ive-To-FBS

Oh my. SMH at that thread.

So incredibly uniformed.

[Haha]

So when does MSU announce?

[panther-state]

So when does MSU announce?

It isn't in the timeline so clearly this is just going to be a closet deal forever with Mo St. administration vehemently denying any activity until the first C-USA game is played

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

Champ, I thought about your question and came up with two schools: the University at Buffalo and Florida Atlantic. Buffalo had apparently only had one winning season in 1AA when they moved up and they won the MAC in 2008. FAU was only 1AA for around 4 years but was mediocre before they moved up under Schnellenburger. I understand your point and I think we'd be going against the grain but I have faith.

Dude, you are terrible at defending your point. Of all the teams that have moved FCS to FBS you pick FAU and Buffalo to defend your point? Wow, you are dense. You could have at least gone Boise State, Idaho, and Marshal' circa 10 years ago. Even those three teams don't really fit MSU though, as they all had amazing fan support at the FCS level, won national titles at the FCS level, and were consistently a top tier FCS team. Heck, since Marshall left the FCS conference that is known as the MAC to join CUSA they haven't done s***, and have been one of the worst FBS teams in the nation. Boise State's success has been amazing, unprecedented, and will never be duplicated. Idaho had one magical season, but has been below Marshall in terms of quality of the team at the FBS level.

However, since you brought up Buffalo (who like Idaho had one good season) and FAU (who was only FCS for 4 years because they had the goal of being a start up to FBS program but that isn't allowed so they had to be FCS for a while - just like Georgia State and Texas-San Antonio are doing right now.

FAU:
All Time Record: 57-63
All Time FCS Record: 26-21 (record not including playoffs 24-20)
All Time FBS Record: 31-42 (in the absolute worst FBS conference...a conference that ranks below 4 or 5 FCS conferences)
1 Sun Belt Conference co-Champ (2007)

FAU only has 6 wins against FBS teams that aren't in the Sun Belt...the only conference they have any success against is C-USA, and most specifically their worst team UAB (2-1).

FAU averaged 14,024 per home game last season.

Buffalo:
All Time Record - 360-478-28
All Time FBS Record -32-88
All Time Winning FBS Seasons - 1 (2008, 8-6)
1 MAC Conference Championship (2008)

Hell, going through all of Buffalo's seasons they have 27 winning record seasons (1 since 1996, 2 since 1986), and 51 seasons with losing records.
Buffalo Averaged 12,980 per home game last season.


The fact is MSU isn't even as good as those two were at the FCS level, don't have the fan support those two did at the FCS level, have half of the future potential of those two programs, half of the targeted market that those two have.


Let's look at some other FCS programs that have moved to the FBS, tell me how much success they have had...keep in mind most of these programs have been very successful (national and conference titles), and were very supported. Tell me how much you know/care about them at the FBS level...hell, tell me if you even knew they were FBS. I'll limit the moves to 1990 or later

Alabama-Birmingham - 1996 Sun Belt
Arkansas State - 1990 Sun Belt
Boise State - 1996 WAC
Central Florida - 1996 CUSA
Connecticut - 2000 Big East (only because the BE bid did they move up, and have had success)
FIU - 2005 (Much like FAU, start up program, only FCS due to NCAA rules)
Idaho - 1997 Sun Belt/WAC
Louisiana-Monroe - Sun Belt
Marshall - 1997 MAC/CUSA
Middle Tennessee State - 1999 Sun Belt
Nevada - 1992 WAC
North Texas - 1995 Sun Belt
Troy - 2002 Sun Belt
Western Kentucky - 2009 Sun Belt


Out of all of those schools only UCF, BSU, UCONN, and Nevada don't have to loop hole the crap out of the minimum attendance rule.

Hell, outside of Boise State, Marshall right after their move but not since 2002, and UCONN as of late, have any of those schools actually done anything on a consistent basis. To be honest, the only reason UCONN moved up was the invite to a BCS conference and big time donors to get the program going.


Here are the computer rankings for football conferences last year (the previous years look very very similar with some minor 1 or 2 spot movements)

1. PAC 10
2. SEC
3. B12
4. ACC
5. B10
6. 1-A INDY
7. Big East
8. MWC
9. WAC
10. C-USA
11. CAA (FCS)
12. Southern (FCS)
13. MAC
14. Big Sky (FCS)
15. MVFC (FCS)
16. Sun Belt

If one were to look at the data and compare C-USA down to the Sun Belt you would see there is very little difference between all of the conferences listed. The best FCS conferences are on part with the C-USA, MAC, not far off of the WAC, and well ahead of the Sun Belt.

If the MSU fan base doesn't care about "rivalries" that have been going on with other MVC teams in football for years (and they tie into the other sports), how do you expect us to believe that you will all of a sudden care about playing Marshall, Eastern Carolina, Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulane, Rice, UTEP, UAB, SMU, Houston, UCF, and Tulsa? The move makes no sense at all.

MSU is f'ed in the a right now for money, and the move would require 22 more men's scholarships, at least that many women's scholarships (probably more), major renovations in the football facility, and a ton of other costs that aren't widely publicized.

You keep telling us that no one cares about the FCS, and that the big time school fans call the FCS D2, and to an extent you are correct. However, the vast majority of those same fans you are referencing say the exact same thing about the MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, etc... Those conference do not mean s*** at the FBS level other than giving ESPN some football games to show between December 20th and 27th when the games that people actually care about are on.

Moving to the MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt brings you zero added notoriety, zero extra respect, zero extra cash, zero anything really other than maybe a boost in moral until the first or second season of finishing last in the conference. You finish at the bottom of the MVFC, how do you expect us to believe you are going to compete for anything at the next level (other than maybe the Sun Belt).

I could keep going, but I've written three pages worth of a post (in MS Word), and need to accomplish something on my one day off for the next two weeks.

uniftw,

I appreciate your time in compiling all of this, I really do. You bring up many excellent points.

My first counterpoint would just be that champ was looking for a program that hadn't been incredibly successful at 1AA. Marshall certainly I would have used them if that stipulation in place. But Boise and Idaho work well too. I'd throw Western Kentucky in as well, though they have struggled in transition. MSU has been more successful in 1AA than Buffalo.

I also dispute how you regard C-USA. It is clearly better than the Sun Belt and the MAC. Playing Houston, UCF, Southern Miss, a revitalized SMU, etc is on a different level than playing FIU or Miami of Ohio. That league gets quite a bit of play before bowl season. And in fairness ESPN shows quite a few Sun Belt and MAC games on Wednesdays during the season. So it is not just bowl season. But you do bring up some things that I had not considered. Good post man.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

uniftw, that was a very nice post. Thanks for the contributions.

However, the drive is still very well alive and kicking:
http://www.msubearnation.com/forum/show ... ive-To-FBS

I don't see what the issue is with people having some faith and hope. Seems like some good intentioned people to me. I understand the ridicule, but I think people are being unfair to a degree.

Edit: I interpreted more tone in this post in my first reading than you had probably intended. I apologize for that.

[Aargh]

Goodbye, MSU. We're really going to miss you.

It's a lock that your move to CUSA will take care of the financial problems that are plaguing your athletics in the MVC. After moving to CUSA, you'll probably be able to afford to pay more than $300K for a basketball coach, but MSU fans will still insist that their AD can hire awesome BB coaches for $300K and repeat it every 3 years. Having to do that every 3 years should be a clue.

MSU is on the verge of locating the abyss in MVC athletics.