Missouri St at Wichita St - Sunday 7:30pm ESPNU

[DoubleJayAlum]

...(also, the horrible FT shooting would seemingly reinforce that conclusion as well, at least for this game).

Please try to stay with me here. I completely agree with you that on those final possessions, WSU showed the least amount of discipline in the entire history of college basketball. But on free throws, which "seemingly reinforce that conclusion" you ignore facts? That's not what I expect from the person I rely on to provide my opinions on my team.

Okay, I admit I didn't realize WSU's FT shooting stats for the season. I did, however, watch the game last night and saw how poorly WSU shot them in a game where they really mattered (and their poor FT shooting arguable cost them the game). I don't know if I'd call last evening's free throws more clutch necessarily, but when the Shocks really needed them the most, they weren't able to knock them down. When a team has big leads, FTs are easier to make because there isn't any pressure and that may explain WSU's season numbers from the line (WSU has had a lot of games in which they have had really big leads). To me, it is kind of like making 6-8 foot putts - when there is nothing on the line, they drop a lot easier than when you are playing for a little cash.

Interesting that you chose to nitpick at my hypothetical but completely chose to ignore the remainder of the post.

I'm not interested in arguing with you. They only thing I want to know is how do we get Murry to play the same way on Wednesday night?

[TylerDurden]

Why didn't WSU run a lob play?

[iSASO]

Okay, I admit I didn't realize WSU's FT shooting stats for the season. I did, however, watch the game last night and saw how poorly WSU shot them in a game where they really mattered (and their poor FT shooting arguable cost them the game). I don't know if I'd call last evening's free throws more clutch necessarily, but when the Shocks really needed them the most, they weren't able to knock them down.

They shot 5/6 from the line when it really mattered, the last 8 minutes. What would you call really good FT shooting for that stretch? Maybe the could have gone 7/6?

If you are talking about the game overall, yes, but MSU shot them 1.2% better. Are both teams that poorly disciplined? I can see why you don't want to argue. You are wrong and won't come clean until you are trapped in a corner with no escape.

[3ontheway]

don't want to speak for anyone, usaso, but it seems DJA inferred that in a close game overall FT shooting can have an effect on the outcome. someone as smart as you should be able to comprehend that.

you see, in what turns out to be a game that is down to the last possession, FTs being made or missed over the entire game can win or lose games for your team. that the shox went 7/8 in the latter part of the game is nice and all, but if they went 2/11 or whatever it was prior to that, that stat really "mattered".

don't go get all worked up, the shox will still make the tourney and sCUm won't.

[3ontheway]

it looks as if DJA was saying that wsu has had pretty decent sized leads for most of the game time this year and it is harder to shoot around a 80% clip when all of a sudden you are down 3 or 4 possessions on your home floor for the first time. again don't want to speak for anyone, but that is how i comprehended what he posted.

[DoubleJayAlum]

If you are talking about the game overall, yes, but MSU shot them 1.2% better.

Agreed. However, WSu got to the line a lot more, so the misses amount to more points. Secondly. MSU was on the road. Look, if you think WSU shot well from the line, so be it. My comments were on WSU's FT shooting for the entire game, not some isolated period within the game. I do believe it is the difference in the game (well, that and the poor execution by WSU coming out of the two late timeouts). My opinion seems to be shared by many on Shockernet, yet I don't see you arguing to no end over there.....

As I said, I thought WSU would win this game hands down and I'm concerned that all of us will have a hard time chasing MSU since they have already won in Cedar Falls, Omaha and Wichita.

[iSASO]

But you make that extra leap and say that makes them an undisciplined team? They shot 70% against UCONN, 78% against Tulsa. In the MVC Tourney last year against MSU, the Shox hit something like 24 of 25. Was that evidence of a Gregg Marshall team being undisciplined?

If WSU would have shot their normal percentage, they win by 1 if that's the only variable you change. You just have to do that at home. No excuses. It's just a bit ridiculous to say that missing 4 free throws in a game makes them undisciplined.

But what do I know? I am not allowed to be an expert on my own team. That job is for fans of other schools on this board who live hundreds of miles away.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Fine, the missed free throws doesn't make them an undisciplined team.

The ignoring of the the plays the coach called in BOTH of the late timeouts is what makes them an undisciplined team (Which, if you go back and read the original post, was the main part of my premise in the first place). Feel better now?

[DoubleJayAlum]

But what do I know? I am not allowed to be an expert on my own team. That job is for fans of other schools on this board who live hundreds of miles away.

That's not the problem at all. The problem is that you don't feel that anyone else outside of Wichita fans have the right to have an opinion on the team or last night's game.

[iSASO]

Oh, you can have all the opinions you want. Just be careful when a team shoots 5/6 from the FT line "when it really matters" and you make a statement about them being undisciplined.

I just hope our undisciplined team can keep the game with Creighton within 30.