If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces them?

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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby panther-state » August 3rd, 2011, 6:53 pm

glm38 wrote:
panther-state wrote:I'll "take a shot" at MSU, glm...no personal offense. I think it's kinda funny that someone considered who would "replace" Illinois St, enough to start a thread (even though there has been almost no speculation along those lines of the initial intent) yet when Missouri St. fans talked about the move no one really batted an eyelash. Is it because no one cares or because no one would notice?

Sorry. Just a thought.


Hey what's one more shot among friends?? There have been so many shots at us on this subject but who's counting? And no personal offense taken of course. Even though I have defended YOUR team on a couple of occasions. LOL.


Well if you're defending them because you actually believe what you're saying and respect them then thats one thing...if its to stay on our nice side/appease me or something then thats another and your choice. An admirable one, in a way, I suppose, but still a choice. I speak my mind as I'm sure everyone is aware and don't play games to please some people or just to p*** off others. Sorry bud, but thats just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it or listen to it...but its not changing. Besides I thought picking on MSU was the "in" thing around here...it seems to be a common theme and I don't want to be a square 8-)
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby DoubleJayAlum » August 3rd, 2011, 6:54 pm

panther-state wrote:
CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:
MoValley John wrote:I have a question, does anyone know of the rules regarding a conference moving to 1-A, oops, FBS? With interest from two or more Valley schools looking to move up, is the MVFC considering the move? And if not, why? This could be the move that would keep the conference in one piece and possibly grab a few smaller Big XII teams when that debacle finally implodes.


John I hope you are joking with the last sentence. No way Big XII-2 teams end up in the MVFC, it is not going to happen. To think otherwise is a delusional line of thought.


I think its pretty reasonable to believe, that with the direction the Big XII is heading and the success (or lack there of) by some of those lesser programs (Iowa St, KU, K-State and even Baylor) might make sense moving to the MVFC if it were realistically looking at moving up to the FBS and becoming another MAC. It's a lot less delusional and a lot more substantive than talking about secret (or not-so-secret apparently) sealed envelopes and moves to the FBS without a concrete resume or even a plaster one (HA! Building material humor 8-) )


Obviously you weren't around about six years ago when IlSU fans were assuring everyone that they were on the verge of entering the Big 12! The performance by some of the MSU fans was minor league in comparison...
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby panther-state » August 3rd, 2011, 7:05 pm

DoubleJayAlum wrote:
panther-state wrote:I think its pretty reasonable to believe, that with the direction the Big XII is heading and the success (or lack there of) by some of those lesser programs (Iowa St, KU, K-State and even Baylor) might make sense moving to the MVFC if it were realistically looking at moving up to the FBS and becoming another MAC. It's a lot less delusional and a lot more substantive than talking about secret (or not-so-secret apparently) sealed envelopes and moves to the FBS without a concrete resume or even a plaster one (HA! Building material humor 8-) )


Obviously you weren't around about six years ago when IlSU fans were assuring everyone that they were on the verge of entering the Big 12! The performance by some of the MSU fans was minor league in comparison...


No I wasn't...I was too busy chasing girls and doing kid stuff to really pay attention to FCS football other than a few UNI games. There's fans like that in every crowd. I'll probably be one for the Panthers if we ever get a super-secret envelope...but I don't see that ever happening. idk where we would fit in
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby glm38 » August 3rd, 2011, 7:20 pm

panther-state wrote:
glm38 wrote:
panther-state wrote:I'll "take a shot" at MSU, glm...no personal offense. I think it's kinda funny that someone considered who would "replace" Illinois St, enough to start a thread (even though there has been almost no speculation along those lines of the initial intent) yet when Missouri St. fans talked about the move no one really batted an eyelash. Is it because no one cares or because no one would notice?

Sorry. Just a thought.


Hey what's one more shot among friends?? There have been so many shots at us on this subject but who's counting? And no personal offense taken of course. Even though I have defended YOUR team on a couple of occasions. LOL.


Well if you're defending them because you actually believe what you're saying and respect them then thats one thing...if its to stay on our nice side/appease me or something then thats another and your choice. An admirable one, in a way, I suppose, but still a choice. I speak my mind as I'm sure everyone is aware and don't play games to please some people or just to p*** off others. Sorry bud, but thats just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it or listen to it...but its not changing. Besides I thought picking on MSU was the "in" thing around here...it seems to be a common theme and I don't want to be a square 8-)


Nah I wouldn't try to appease anyone especially a rival MVC team fanbase. At this point I really do have all the respect in the world for the Northern Iowa basketball program.

That was just my lame attempt at taking a jab back at you. It's all good.
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby panther-state » August 3rd, 2011, 11:45 pm

glm38 wrote:Hey what's one more shot among friends?? There have been so many shots at us on this subject but who's counting? And no personal offense taken of course. Even though I have defended YOUR team on a couple of occasions. LOL.


Well if you're defending them because you actually believe what you're saying and respect them then thats one thing...if its to stay on our nice side/appease me or something then thats another and your choice. An admirable one, in a way, I suppose, but still a choice. I speak my mind as I'm sure everyone is aware and don't play games to please some people or just to p*** off others. Sorry bud, but thats just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it or listen to it...but its not changing. Besides I thought picking on MSU was the "in" thing around here...it seems to be a common theme and I don't want to be a square 8-)[/quote]

Nah I wouldn't try to appease anyone especially a rival MVC team fanbase. At this point I really do have all the respect in the world for the Northern Iowa basketball program.

That was just my lame attempt at taking a jab back at you. It's all good.[/quote]

For future reference, I'm unjabbable :D
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby TylerDurden » August 4th, 2011, 10:12 am

I can certainly understand the potential excitement of playing FBS football, but there isn't a school in the MVC that's equipped to handle FBS football in the short or long term.

Operating a FBS football program takes a tremendous amount of sustained resources, resources that MVFC schools do not possess and would be hard pressed to find -- especially in this economy.

How long have we heard that Illinois State is going to renovate its stadium and make the jump? Why hasn't that happened? Resources. Every AD they've had knows it, but they give the fans just enough hope so they can extract donations.

I know fans get excited to think that they can play and compete in football against Texas, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State or whoever they dream about playing. But the reality of any MVFC school's existence in FBS is far from glamorous.

They are the buy game. They are the first blowout win for Ohio State, Texas and the like. They might have one or two non-conference games that they have a shot at winning, and those are against Western Kentucky and Louisiana Lafayette. Then they play the same conference schedule they do now. They aren't joining another league and you can't change geography. The Big Ten is still there recruiting better players. Same for the Big 12.

Essentially, you're trying to unnecessarily recreate the college basketball landscape where the arms race is a never-ending struggle for schools outside of the BCS. The difference is that basketball lends itself much better to "level" competition than football.

If the MVFC jumps up, all that happens is that the schools are spending more money for the same schedules and competition and a chance to play in the 5-Hour Energy/Tootsie Pop/Cream Puff Bowl in Rio Rancho, New Mexico -- where the expense of another game is more than the payout, driving your budget deeper into the hole.

This isn't about "having" a plan. It's about a smart strategic and business decision.
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby MoValley John » August 4th, 2011, 11:20 am

TylerDurden wrote:I can certainly understand the potential excitement of playing FBS football, but there isn't a school in the MVC that's equipped to handle FBS football in the short or long term.

Operating a FBS football program takes a tremendous amount of sustained resources, resources that MVFC schools do not possess and would be hard pressed to find -- especially in this economy.

How long have we heard that Illinois State is going to renovate its stadium and make the jump? Why hasn't that happened? Resources. Every AD they've had knows it, but they give the fans just enough hope so they can extract donations.

I know fans get excited to think that they can play and compete in football against Texas, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State or whoever they dream about playing. But the reality of any MVFC school's existence in FBS is far from glamorous.

They are the buy game. They are the first blowout win for Ohio State, Texas and the like. They might have one or two non-conference games that they have a shot at winning, and those are against Western Kentucky and Louisiana Lafayette. Then they play the same conference schedule they do now. They aren't joining another league and you can't change geography. The Big Ten is still there recruiting better players. Same for the Big 12.

Essentially, you're trying to unnecessarily recreate the college basketball landscape where the arms race is a never-ending struggle for schools outside of the BCS. The difference is that basketball lends itself much better to "level" competition than football.

If the MVFC jumps up, all that happens is that the schools are spending more money for the same schedules and competition and a chance to play in the 5-Hour Energy/Tootsie Pop/Cream Puff Bowl in Rio Rancho, New Mexico -- where the expense of another game is more than the payout, driving your budget deeper into the hole.

This isn't about "having" a plan. It's about a smart strategic and business decision.


I would tend to agree, but it isn't black and white. One key factor would be to research how much the MVFC could generate in tv money. Probably not much, but I bet that the money for what tv they currently get now is close to zero. That said, if going FBS could initially generate $750,000 per school it woul be a start. Plus, each "buy" game will earn close to a million. That alone would be a $1.7 million boost. Costs would increase as well, but so would local revenue from advertising and marketing.

I was reading an article in the Omaha World Herald regarding the Huskers scheduling, and one thing I didn't know was that they pay considerably more to "buy" small FBS games than they do to "buy" an FCS game. The difference was staggering. Up to $1.1 million for a FBS team and only up to $375,000 for a FCS team. If you look at Missouri State, they are taking two buys this year, Oregon and Arkansas, with those two roadies, they are making less than they would for one game if they simply were in the FBS.

I certainly don't think that the MVFC will jump, but it would be a mistake for them to not be crunching these numbers. Making a smart strategic and busness decision requires constant evaluation. Keep in mind, Iowa State is no different than any of the MVFC teams except for the fact that they are in a conference that sends them checks.
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby jwa123 » August 4th, 2011, 11:25 am

For those who suggest that the MVFC make the move to FBS, I don't think that can be done. Maybe someone knows more about this than I do but my understanding is this. The NCAA will not allow an entire FCS conference to all of a decide to be FBS. Thus, for an FCS school to make a move to FBS, they need an invitation from an existing FBS conference. If a conference implodes (or explodes) like the WAC is on the verge of doing, then if there are at least 6 schools left that have been conference mates for at least 8 years, they can form a new conference and invite FCS schools that want to go FBS.

As for Illinois State, who knows where this will go. Some of my fellow poster at our web-site want FBS badly for our school. While I am one of those who likes things the way they are, they do have some substantive points. I like the rivalries of the MVC and I am a lot more enthused about Wichita State coming to town than Kent State. I mean no slight to any other conference schools as I merely used WSU as an example. I use Kent State as an example because as the conference landscape exists today, the MAC is the only viable option. The MAC door might be closed however, as that conference seems to be interested in expanding east not west.

As for our resources, there is going to a major announcement in September about Hancock Stadium. Maybe nothing more than the announcement of a new hot dog vendor but who knows? Finally, our President states we need to become a dominant team at the FCS level before making any move to the FBS level but his vision is for Illinois State someday to be at the FBS level.
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby BirdmanBB » August 4th, 2011, 12:18 pm

JWA makes a great point that I think might seperate us from a school like MSU who's fans want to move into FBS in that our school president has said that it is his goal to get our football program into FBS. We can talk about money and resources all day, but that is not our problem to worry about since apparently they feel like this is feasable.

Personally I think all the hires that have been made point to the FBS direction. I also think it is interesting that we thought the major issue facing our new AD while they were still interviewing was the importance of fundraising and getting our football stadium upgraded. He is not even 3 months into his job here and they announced they will be making a major announcement about the stadium in September. So my thoughts are that the money had mostly been in place before he even showed up on campus. He is known for building up schools athletic budgets everywhere he has been. IMO, he is being brought in to increase our budget for this type of move.

As I mentioned before, at this point in time it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when. I am not sure any other school in the MVFC can say that.
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Re: If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces the

Postby jwa123 » August 4th, 2011, 1:24 pm

Oh, I failed to answer the question of the original post as to who replaces ISU if we leave for football. IF THAT HAPPENS AND I SAY IF, the answer has to be SLU. There is a faction at that school that would love to leave the A10 and join the MVC. The travel costs and the time away from class on the many trips to the east coast does not please everyone at SLU. We have to admit, the footprint of The Valley fits them greatly. A writer in a St Louis paper contrasted the MVC tournament in St Louis and SLU going off to some east coast campus to play in an arena that might be 1/4th full for their conference tournament.

As for those who pine for Butler, don't hold your breath. They seem quite content in the Horizon.
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