The debate for third place is open.

[Khan4Cats]

WSU is getting pre-season press as a potential top-25 team. A lot of other pundits and sports journlists are putting WSU in their top 30. WSU will be the pre-season favorite based on what they are returning. The media types seem to look at that more than looking at what team is losing.

I think WSU is being heavily overrated, because replacing 4 Sr's - and none of them t the gurd position, is troubling. I personally think CU has the talent to run away and hide this year. Front court depth is the only possible weakness I can see at CU.

The media is going to pick WSU to win the conference, and I think most knowledgeable fans are going to pick CU. There have been several posts on this board that say CU and WSU are the top 2.

I think a thread about picking the 3rd place team is legitimate. It's not politically correct, and it may be inaccurate, but CU and WSU are going to be the teams at the top when the pre-season picks come out in the media.

If this is news to anyone, I apologize for being the guy to break this news to you. There are already some top-XXX lists coming out that make it pretty clear that CU and WSU are just about media locks for #1 and #2. The appearance right now is that pre-season predictions will have a sizable gap between 2nd and 3rd.

If anyone here wants to put WSU and CU into the discussion for 3rd place, you can certainly do that. Just because I didn't in the first post in the thread doesn't mean those schools can't be discussed for a 3rd place finish.

3rd place seems to be the most interesting spot for discussion right now.

I don't disagree with anything you said there other than maybe the assertion that WSU being picked to win by the media is a lock or maybe implied as a unanimous. I think it will be close between WSU and CU at the top and don't know if one is clearly in front of the other.

The only thing I would add that you left out is that much of the national media love for the Shockers comes not from a deep analysis of the team or league but a cursory glance at the results of the NIT. I think the national media is too lazy to do anything more than look at that and assume a great run last March will automatically translate into success this year.

Not saying that the Shockers shouldn't be good this year, just that some of the hype isn't about what they have coming back or coming in, but on what they did at the end of the year last year-and they did look very good in doing that. But as you noted, there is a large and important component of that run not back this year.

[Haha]

I keep seeing what a concern WSU's 4/5 position is. Yes it is a concern but it's not like it's some terrible front line. Actually has the potential to be a very productive front line. Just that it's Stutz who tends to fair better outside of MVC and 4 guys who are inexperienced at the D1 level. I think between the 5 of them they will be able to provide good enough minutes. Especially when you look at positions 1 thru 3, nobody amazing but very solid and capable players that are all experienced and fairly deep.

My biggest reason though for shrugging at the concern for WSU's bigs is I don't see anybody outside of CU in the valley that is returning a stacked frontline. CU certainly has the best 4/5 combo but did they not lose one of their 3 that played the majority of minutes there last year? Do they have some transfers I'm not aware of with D1 experience there to provide quality backup minutes? Not saying they don't have quality reserves at those positions just that I don't think they are proven past the starters.

So again I look thru the league and I don't see any other team besides CU who can confidently claim to have much if any advantage over WSU down low this year. Now my memory could be off and I might be forgetting about some dynamic duos I can't recall and if so please remind me.

[ictjay]

I keep seeing what a concern WSU's 4/5 position is. Yes it is a concern but it's not like it's some terrible front line. Actually has the potential to be a very productive front line. Just that it's Stutz who tends to fair better outside of MVC and 4 guys who are inexperienced at the D1 level. I think between the 5 of them they will be able to provide good enough minutes. Especially when you look at positions 1 thru 3, nobody amazing but very solid and capable players that are all experienced and fairly deep.

My biggest reason though for shrugging at the concern for WSU's bigs is I don't see anybody outside of CU in the valley that is returning a stacked frontline. CU certainly has the best 4/5 combo but did they not lose one of their 3 that played the majority of minutes there last year? Do they have some transfers I'm not aware of with D1 experience there to provide quality backup minutes? Not saying they don't have quality reserves at those positions just that I don't think they are proven past the starters.

So again I look thru the league and I don't see any other team besides CU who can confidently claim to have much if any advantage over WSU down low this year. Now my memory could be off and I might be forgetting about some dynamic duos I can't recall and if so please remind me.

Ethan Wragge 6'7" (medical redshirt) Will Artino 6' 11" legit 4 (redshirt) Geoff Groeselle 6' 11" frosh

[Haha]

I keep seeing what a concern WSU's 4/5 position is. Yes it is a concern but it's not like it's some terrible front line. Actually has the potential to be a very productive front line. Just that it's Stutz who tends to fair better outside of MVC and 4 guys who are inexperienced at the D1 level. I think between the 5 of them they will be able to provide good enough minutes. Especially when you look at positions 1 thru 3, nobody amazing but very solid and capable players that are all experienced and fairly deep.

My biggest reason though for shrugging at the concern for WSU's bigs is I don't see anybody outside of CU in the valley that is returning a stacked frontline. CU certainly has the best 4/5 combo but did they not lose one of their 3 that played the majority of minutes there last year? Do they have some transfers I'm not aware of with D1 experience there to provide quality backup minutes? Not saying they don't have quality reserves at those positions just that I don't think they are proven past the starters.

So again I look thru the league and I don't see any other team besides CU who can confidently claim to have much if any advantage over WSU down low this year. Now my memory could be off and I might be forgetting about some dynamic duos I can't recall and if so please remind me.

Ethan Wragge 6'7" (medical redshirt) Will Artino 6' 11" legit 4 (redshirt) Geoff Groeselle 6' 11" frosh

So which one of those guys are proven at D1 level? I'm not sure what your response means or am I sure if you actually understood what I wrote. That may be my fault, who knows.

Again, outside of CU who else in the league can with confidence claim to have an obvious advantage over WSU at the 4/5?

[ictjay]

I keep seeing what a concern WSU's 4/5 position is. Yes it is a concern but it's not like it's some terrible front line. Actually has the potential to be a very productive front line. Just that it's Stutz who tends to fair better outside of MVC and 4 guys who are inexperienced at the D1 level. I think between the 5 of them they will be able to provide good enough minutes. Especially when you look at positions 1 thru 3, nobody amazing but very solid and capable players that are all experienced and fairly deep.

My biggest reason though for shrugging at the concern for WSU's bigs is I don't see anybody outside of CU in the valley that is returning a stacked frontline. CU certainly has the best 4/5 combo but did they not lose one of their 3 that played the majority of minutes there last year? Do they have some transfers I'm not aware of with D1 experience there to provide quality backup minutes? Not saying they don't have quality reserves at those positions just that I don't think they are proven past the starters.

So again I look thru the league and I don't see any other team besides CU who can confidently claim to have much if any advantage over WSU down low this year. Now my memory could be off and I might be forgetting about some dynamic duos I can't recall and if so please remind me.

Ethan Wragge 6'7" (medical redshirt) Will Artino 6' 11" legit 4 (redshirt) Geoff Groeselle 6' 11" frosh

So which one of those guys are proven at D1 level? I'm not sure what your response means or am I sure if you actually understood what I wrote. That may be my fault, who knows.

Again, outside of CU who else in the league can with confidence claim to have an obvious advantage over WSU at the 4/5?

Wragge was a starter at the end of his freshman year. Last year, while injured managed to score 22 vz St Joseph before shutting it down with a foot injury.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... han-wragge

[WSUbballer]

I'd eliminate MSU from 3rd contention. The coaching change is gonna be a bigger deal than many MSU fans think. Having good players and inexperienced coaching will lead to a lot more unwanted L's than you may think.

UNI is a big question mark. Their inside presence seems to be totally wiped out. They got Koch, but he seems to be coming along a bit slower than his big bro. They may sneak into 3rd based on the teams contending for this spot not being as strong.

I hate to say it, but I have to put Indiana State here at this point. But really, this entire league, minus the bottom 2 in SIU and BU is a total crapshoot. I don't really think any team can say their confident in any place they see their team being picked, outside of CU at the top maybe and again, the bottom 2.

[valleychamp]

UNI is a big question mark. Their inside presence seems to be totally wiped out. They got Koch, but he seems to be coming along a bit slower than his big bro. They may sneak into 3rd based on the teams contending for this spot not being as strong.

Post presence isn't wiped out. There is plenty of talent there but for the most part, it is just really young.

And I disagree w/ your point about Jake Koch. There are many people who have that perception about him but the stats say otherwise.

[WSUbballer]

I guess we'll see. I wasn't too impressed with UNI's bigs after O'Rear went down last year. It was pretty much Kwadzo carrying the team whenever he could, along with an occasional James or Koch pick up.

[panther-state]

I havent gone back and checked recently (and don't feel like doing it right now) but I thought Jake was already posting better numbers than Adam was as a freshman and sophomore. I just hope the ankles are okay and he can "breakthrough" to his potential. There is no reason he should be posting 10-15 pts and 6-10 rebounds/game this next season, IF he's healthy and gets additional help down low from our youth

[DoubleJayAlum]

Chatman is a player and is going to do wonderful things for CU. I like Young and Manigat as well. Not sure on your post depth, but we have the same questions about us here in Wichita. I do think it sucks that we're going to have to face Chatman at least 8 times in the next 4 seasons. He's still one I'd have loved to see pick WSU. Sounds like he showed a little of what he can do in the Bahamas as well.

Chatman was just what this team needed and we're pretty lucky to get him.

I'm honestly not worried about post depth. Behind the main two, we have some pretty skilled young guys who have looked pretty good so far. Groselle plays a physical game like Echenique, so we won't even have to adjust styles when he's on the floor. Wragge started at the four at the end of his freshman year because he was the best shooter on the team, so he should be fine in backing up McDermott, assuming he can stay healthy. Redshirt frosh Artino will probably spend time at both positions.

Our whole season will come down to the play of our guards. Can they pass? Can they knock down 3 point shots at a good clip? How well can they defend?