Bigs in the Valley

[MoValley John]

In the games I watched UNI-Creighton, Echinique could have been called a dozen times each game for camping in the lane. He just doesn't move out from the block at all.

You do realize the discussion is about foul calls, right? The problem is that the MVC doesn't let big guys play with any sort of physicality whatsoever. Sure, you have dirty players like O'Rear who get away with cheap shots when refs aren't looking, but they never give centers the benefit of the doubt, especially when they are playing defense against a driving guard.

The complaint was about calls in general, and I was commenting about about calls in general that seem to go against some players and not others.

And dirty players like McDermott are able to get away with stuff all the time when the refs are looking the other way in order to not have to listen to daddy whine.

Now this thread just got gooood! Nice work!

[MoValley John]

Still don't understand how Matt Webster got away with everything he got away with a few years ago.

You don't mess with Matt Webster.

[jaybydna]

WSU has Stutz. He's shown what he can do outside of the Valley. Now we just need to see him do it inside the Valley. Problem is he gets called for more fouls in conference play.

That isn't just Stutz. it seems to be how the Valley was called last year. If you were a big man, and played like a big, refs blew their whistles before contact was even initiated. I saw this happen to both Stutz and Echineque. At the same time, those same bigs almost had to bleed before officials blew their whistles when a defender hacked them. As a Creighton season ticket holder, this happened all conference long. I watched Wichita State on TV several times and it appeared the same type of thing was happening to him. Bigs in the Valley will only play as well as the referees allow them. Both Echineque and Stutz were allowed to be more active in the non-con and the post season than they ever were allowed to play in conference.

Now before we here someone chimes in with "There aren't Valley refs, these are the same guys that call games in the B1G and the Big XII." I know that. But the officials do call the game the way the Valley offices dictate, and last year, the refs were very whistle happy when it came to bigs playing any defense beyond standing still and taking up dead space. If you were a big and you were active, you got whistled.

As I said, how the bigs perform this year will have a lot to do with how the league office allows them to play. This is a sad statement, but true. And if the Valley consistently penalizes bigs for simply playing like a big, recruiting bigs, for any team, will become even more difficult than it is now.

I'm not sure I buy the argument. Just for the heck of it, I looked up Echineque's foul stats from last season:

71 fouls in 684 minutes (1 foul every 9.6 minutes or 4.15 fouls per 40 minutes).

I then looked up the stats for Drake's 2 centers, and found this:

VanDeest = 71 fouls in 701 minutes (1 per 9.9 minutes or 4.05 fouls per 40 minutes)
Woods = 63 fouls in 488 minutes (1 per 7.7 minutes or 5.16 fouls per 40 minutes)

Doesn't look like Echinique was being called for more fouls than other bigs in the league.

We are talking Bigs in general, not just Ech. Van Deest, Woods, and every other big has the same complaint.

[Khan4Cats]

I wasn't the first to throw out the dirty player comment and I wasn't trying to go there with the discussion, but one person's dirty is another's hard-worker. Just because someone doesn't have tattoos, doesn't make them "clean."

My comments were simply that certain players are able to get away with some things while others appear not to. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I do think there are some things that are looked at differently by different officials, but I don't think it is Valley-wide. It's one reason I don't like the little half-circle under the basket for an automatic charge call. It simply allows offensive players to be totally out of control and get away with it-which I think happens more often already than defensive players being allowed to mug people.

I would agree with the poster that says that there is tremendous inconsistency in calls in games, and often it goes from half to half. My priority would be making sure officials are more consistent with what they are going to call individually and as a three-man unit each game, and then let coaches and players adjust. It's when they don't know if they are going to be called one time down the court to the next for the same thing, when it becomes an issue.

[MoValley John]

I wasn't the first to throw out the dirty player comment and I wasn't trying to go there with the discussion, but one person's dirty is another's hard-worker. Just because someone doesn't have tattoos, doesn't make them "clean."

My comments were simply that certain players are able to get away with some things while others appear not to. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I do think there are some things that are looked at differently by different officials, but I don't think it is Valley-wide. It's one reason I don't like the little half-circle under the basket for an automatic charge call. It simply allows offensive players to be totally out of control and get away with it-which I think happens more often already than defensive players being allowed to mug people.

I would agree with the poster that says that there is tremendous inconsistency in calls in games, and often it goes from half to half. My priority would be making sure officials are more consistent with what they are going to call individually and as a three-man unit each game, and then let coaches and players adjust. It's when they don't know if they are going to be called one time down the court to the next for the same thing, when it becomes an issue.

Tattoos? Who has tattoos in basketball? Whomever it is, he must be dirty.

[shockem]

I think most Shocker fans biggest complaint about JT Durley was on his lack of defense. He didn't get called like Stutz because he he wasn't as physical on D. Blair had the benefit of splitting time with Aaron Ellis, so we essentially got 10 fouls out of our 4 man. One of them were usually in foul trouble, if not both.

Stutz must learn to play defense this year without fouling. He is very foul prone, not because he's so physical, but because he can't get his arms and legs in the right position without committing the ticky tack fouls.

[LMS]

Funny that the jilted UNI fan thinks McDermott is "dirty".

[valleychamp]

Tattoos? Who has tattoos in basketball? Whomever it is, he must be dirty.

Only Thugs.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Funny that the jilted UNI fan thinks McDermott is "dirty".

He doesn't; he's just trying to get a rise out of Creighton fans.

Note, however, that he doesn't dispute that O'Rear is dirty.

[valleychamp]

Funny that the jilted UNI fan thinks McDermott is "dirty".

Riiight, LOL. It has been Creighton fans whining about how their poor little big men are being treated unfair!!! And it was a Creighton fan who threw the first "dirty player" comment.

Who exactly is jilted?