MVCs Freshman of the Year/Newcomers of the Year

[PantherSigEp]

Which one is more important or valuable to their team. The Birds have really improved this year while UNI has really dropped this year. Also, Christian Kirk has really solved a lot of the Bears rebounding problems since inserted into the lineup. That would be another way to show value without great stats.

I would buy that except UNI has not "really dropped" this year. Tuttle has been the answer to UNI's lack of a post presence since O'Rear suffered his injury and we know how the Panthers fared last year when Pehl had to be relied on as our post. Last year's squad finished MVC play 1-7 after losing O'Rear if you count the first round loss of the MVCT. I would say that has been a huge improvement although I agree with everything else about your point.

Even though they've slipped up since Valley play started Seth has been a big reason UNI is even still being talked about in general right now. The big problem has been that he hasn't been showcased like he should be and guys like James (300+ shots...unreal) have been the focus of the offense. Seth is only 6th on the team in shots taken but when he takes 5 or more shots the Panthers are 7-4 and his scoring rises to 13.5 ppg. However he's had some pretty unremarkable games when he doesn't take many attempts.

I really wish he would play just a bit more since he only averages about 20 mins/game despite doing an excellent job of not picking up fouls like he did earlier in the season (only 3 games of 3 PF's or more in the MVC season). I agree that it will probably depend on which team finishes higher in the standings, or if it's very close, does better in St. Louis if say one gets bounced in their first game and the other makes it to the final. I just want to have some sort of player race to look forward to since PoY has been wrapped up since December.

to another exciting finish to the season.

[glm38]

It's too bad Kirk had to sit out his senior year of HS last year and missed a year of competitive ball (last year). I think that held him back at the start of the year. He just seemed out of sync and most think that's the reason why. He's really hit his stride in conference play and seems to be getting better and more confident by leaps and bounds. He's not the FOY in the MVC but just watch - he's going to be a very fine player.

[cpacmel]

Kirk is a nice player, but FOY? I don't see that at all.

I think it's down to 3 players:

Tuttle
Moore
Daniels

Really close to call. In year's past, block shots isn't valued as much as other stats when it comes to the voting here. (atleast that's how I remember past voting going)

I also can't believe someone tried to tout Tuttle's lack of turnovers in comparison to Moore's. Moore has the ball in his possession 20 times as much as Tuttle does. Of course his turnovers are going to be more.

Sawvell is having a really nice year too. Throw in Jeffers and there is probably your All-Freshmen team.

[valleychamp]

I also can't believe someone tried to tout Tuttle's lack of turnovers in comparison to Moore's. Moore has the ball in his possession 20 times as much as Tuttle does. Of course his turnovers are going to be more.

Right, which also means he is putting up a lot more shots than Tuttle is, which makes Tuttle's PPG even more impressive.

You can spin it both ways.

[GOREDBIRDS4]

I also can't believe someone tried to tout Tuttle's lack of turnovers in comparison to Moore's. Moore has the ball in his possession 20 times as much as Tuttle does. Of course his turnovers are going to be more.

Right, which also means he is putting up a lot more shots than Tuttle is, which makes Tuttle's PPG even more impressive.

You can spin it both ways.

Really if you look at it Nic has only 30 more shots than Tuttle on the season. That is basically 1 more shot per game. 153 to 123. If you look at minutes played to shots taken, Nic shoots 1 shot ever 4.04 minutes while Tuttle shoots 1 shot every 4.43 minutes. Tuttle shoots the ball more when hes on the floor. You can spin it anyway that you want.

A stat you can't measure is the amount of possessions the ball is in a players hands. That is clearly in the favor of Nic and I agree with mel as to why that is why he would have more turnovers.

Glad you agree with my all FOY team from above mel! Great minds think alike!

[UNIFanSince1983]

I really wasn't trying to get Kirk into the discussion for FOY (all frosh team?) but using his value to the team to demonstrate value without great stats. The Bears really were getting beat badly on the boards before Kirk was inserted in the starting lineup (before Patterson injury). The Bears are a much more stable team now. Likewise, the Birds really lacked at point last year and struggled because of it. In steps Nic and the Birds are much better. Tuttle is filling a hole that didn't exist last year but would be huge without him. The Panthers are not near the team though with tuttle that they were without him. All that to say, Moore has had a much bigger impact on his team. Not a stat but a tool to measure.

Without Tuttle this year we wouldn't be half the team we are. To say we aren't as good with Tuttle as we were without him is asinine. We lost one of the best point guards in the league, and one of the better ones in our history. The reason we are slightly worse to this point in the season this year compared to last year is we do not have Kwadzo. It isn't because Tuttle isn't valuable to our team.

[PantherSigEp]

If you look at minutes played to shots taken, Nic shoots 1 shot ever 4.04 minutes while Tuttle shoots 1 shot every 4.43 minutes. Tuttle shoots the ball more when hes on the floor.

Actually in this instance doesn't that mean Moore shoots once every 4 mins while Tuttle shoots one once about every 4 1/2 mins (thus Moore shoots it slightly more often). I could be interpreting that wrong, just the first thing that popped into my mind.

All in all the stats are pretty close between those two and Daniels makes it close as well. I think out of the 3 he would be ranked 2nd in pretty much all of the stat categories. An all-around solid player that SIU and the Valley better hope doesn't go the way of some of their other recent talents (Booker, Teague, etc...)

[GOREDBIRDS4]

If you look at minutes played to shots taken, Nic shoots 1 shot ever 4.04 minutes while Tuttle shoots 1 shot every 4.43 minutes. Tuttle shoots the ball more when hes on the floor.

Actually in this instance doesn't that mean Moore shoots once every 4 mins while Tuttle shoots one once about every 4 1/2 mins (thus Moore shoots it slightly more often). I could be interpreting that wrong, just the first thing that popped into my mind.

Nic shots per minute are lower because he has played more minutes.

[quote="PantherSigEp"All in all the stats are pretty close between those two and Daniels makes it close as well. I think out of the 3 he would be ranked 2nd in pretty much all of the stat categories. An all-around solid player that SIU and the Valley better hope doesn't go the way of some of their other recent talents (Booker, Teague, etc...)[/quote]

Dilliard... just to keep adding to your list haha.

[Wufan]

Kirk is a nice player, but FOY? I don't see that at all.

I think it's down to 3 players:

Tuttle
Moore
Daniels

Really close to call. In year's past, block shots isn't valued as much as other stats when it comes to the voting here. (atleast that's how I remember past voting going)

I also can't believe someone tried to tout Tuttle's lack of turnovers in comparison to Moore's. Moore has the ball in his possession 20 times as much as Tuttle does. Of course his turnovers are going to be more.

Sawvell is having a really nice year too. Throw in Jeffers and there is probably your All-Freshmen team.

I agree with the above, but will add Mitchell as a third player in tier 2 with Jeffers and Sawvell. Kirk might end up being All-Valley one day, but he's not All-Frosh team this year. Who's Dilliard?

[cpacmel]

wufan, thanks for bringing up Mitchell. I didn't mean to omit him, but I did. He is have a good year too. His game at ISU he didn't show anything, but he has really played well for UNI (especially his last two games)