An argument for Missouri State

[glm38]

For the record,I like Gregg Marshall. I like him a lot. As for Weems, I never disliked him, I really disliked his antics. His antics on the floor led me to have no sympathy for him when he cried on tv after losing in the MVC finals.

For the record I respect marshal too. And most most mvc teams would take him as their coach in a heartbeat. But how exactly do his antics differ from weems?

[moshock]

For the record,I like Gregg Marshall. I like him a lot. As for Weems, I never disliked him, I really disliked his antics. His antics on the floor led me to have no sympathy for him when he cried on tv after losing in the MVC finals.

For the record I respect marshal too. And most most mvc teams would take him as their coach in a heartbeat. But how exactly do his antics differ from weems?

I'm not sure what antics you are speaking of with Marshall. I've never seen him beat his chest, slash his throat, do the circles around his eyes (with his fingers - not sure what to call that)

I'm not a KW hater BTW. He should have let his game speak for itself. His game was enough.

[BEARZ77]

I wonder how many people who talk about the things Kyle did, ever actually saw him do them. My guess is not very many. I 'm not trying to defend Kyle, he did some things that naturally draw the ire of opposing fans. But I saw practically every game he ever played, and I can tell you his exploits have been greatly exagerated both as to amount and some as to detail. And often times Kyle was just jiving with fans who were giving him similar back and it was just having fun with them. But in todays world say something enough on the internet, and don't always include conext, and it becomes something else to many who've never witnessed it themselves, but gladly share it as if they did and paint it entirely different than the context in which it happened. Like I said, Kyle made his own bed, but I think if you didn't witness it yourself and I mean every bit of what you repeat on a board, then I think your behavior is easily more an issue than his.

I saw what I thought was an extremely stupid and classless act put on by Mc Dermott in Springfield last year with Scheer guarding him in the post, but that's my opinion, and I hardly see a need to reference it every time Doug's name comes up as does a certain BJ fan when the topic of KW is introduced. Different strokes.

[MoValley John]

For the record,I like Gregg Marshall. I like him a lot. As for Weems, I never disliked him, I really disliked his antics. His antics on the floor led me to have no sympathy for him when he cried on tv after losing in the MVC finals.

For the record I respect marshal too. And most most mvc teams would take him as their coach in a heartbeat. But how exactly do his antics differ from weems?

Unfair or not, coaches and players are viewed differently. Coaches are viewed on wins and losses and sadly, to a lesser degree, graduating players. Marshall wins and graduates players. He has some players transfer, but all in all, he graduates kids. There are also very few issues of kids getting in trouble under his watch.

I have said this before, but I'll say it again, on court antics directly relate to what the head coach will allow. I really kind of think that Weems would be seen in a different light had Cuonzo not been his coach. Lusk didn't allow that behavior and you didnt see it last year. Cuonzo allowed that behavior and almost seemed to encourage it. Unfortunaty for Weems, you can't take it back.

Now back to Marshall, he may get animated, he might erupt, but he is getting paid a lot of money to win, at the same time, he won't allow Weems like behavior out of his players. God help the Shocker player that showboats in front of the opposing bench under Marshall's watch. And yes, I did, in person, see Weems do this several times.

[BEARZ77]

Not quite true, Ragland taunted and mouthed off to Lusk in the post game handshake lines after one of the games last year between MSU and WSU. Lusk took great offense but later dismissed it as heat of the moment emotion, and said he thought Ragland was a good kid. To my knowledge Marshall never addressed it.

[tribecalledquest]

So, many Missouri State fans really like Kyle Weems, say he is a good guy, class act, great person, etc.

A few fans of other teams recognize Kyle as a good player but maybe don't think so highly of him based on what they've seen from his on court antics.

Is there a chance both are somewhat right and both are somewhat wrong?

I am surprised that any objectively minded MSU fan sees a team that will finish in the top 6 in 2012-13.

[tribecalledquest]

So, many Missouri State fans really like Kyle Weems, say he is a good guy, class act, great person, etc.

A few fans of other teams recognize Kyle as a good player but maybe don't think so highly of him based on what they've seen from his on court antics.

Is there a chance both are somewhat right and both are somewhat wrong?

I am surprised that any objectively minded MSU fan sees a team that will finish in the top 6 in 2012-13.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I wonder how many people who talk about the things Kyle did, ever actually saw him do them. My guess is not very many. I 'm not trying to defend Kyle, he did some things that naturally draw the ire of opposing fans. But I saw practically every game he ever played, and I can tell you his exploits have been greatly exagerated both as to amount and some as to detail. And often times Kyle was just jiving with fans who were giving him similar back and it was just having fun with them. But in todays world say something enough on the internet, and don't always include conext, and it becomes something else to many who've never witnessed it themselves, but gladly share it as if they did and paint it entirely different than the context in which it happened. Like I said, Kyle made his own bed, but I think if you didn't witness it yourself and I mean every bit of what you repeat on a board, then I think your behavior is easily more an issue than his.

I saw what I thought was an extremely stupid and classless act put on by Mc Dermott in Springfield last year with Scheer guarding him in the post, but that's my opinion, and I hardly see a need to reference it every time Doug's name comes up as does a certain BJ fan when the topic of KW is introduced. Different strokes.

First of all, I wouldn't have said anything at all if the certain poster had not called Weems "the most admirable star to come through this league in a long time" which I think is laughable.

I've seen Weems' antics first hand multiple times. It started in his freshman season. In that game in Omaha, when his team was down double digits, he made a wide open shot. Despite being down double digits late in the second half, he slowed his run back down the court to a little more than a trot and stared down the Creighton bench the whole way. Because of the lopsided score at the time, you could tell right then and there that to Weems, it was all about Weems. He proceeded to try to bait a couple of players into an altercation after that. It was all completely unnecessary as the game was essentially over and it did nothing to fire up his teammates.

He repeated similar selfish, look-at-me things every single subsequent year in Omaha. I have no idea what he did in other venues, but my seats are only a handful of rows from the floor in Omaha and I've seen him pull the same "hey everybody, look at me" crap all four years. And no, he wasn't just giving it back to the crowd - he was instigating. Jamar Howard is the only other opponent I remember putting on a similar show every appearance in town.

He was a very talented player, but he really missed out on the one thing that every NCAA team shoots for: he never played in a single NCAA tourney game.

[TheTimeIsNow]

Well, I got to see about 90% of Kyle's games over the course of his career, including all but 1 home game. I didn't mind the staring at the bench stuff. Grow up if that bothers you. What did bother me was all of the throat slashing and chest pounding, which he did a lot of, especially his Junior year. I actually agree that I think it was a huge reflection of the coach. But either way, the last thing a school needs is for the face of their program to do all of the throat slashing and chest pounding BS.

The kid did a lot of great thing for our program, but IMO his attitude held us back from achieving our potential.

[glm38]

For the record,I like Gregg Marshall. I like him a lot. As for Weems, I never disliked him, I really disliked his antics. His antics on the floor led me to have no sympathy for him when he cried on tv after losing in the MVC finals.

For the record I respect marshal too. And most most mvc teams would take him as their coach in a heartbeat. But how exactly do his antics differ from weems?

Unfair or not, coaches and players are viewed differently. Coaches are viewed on wins and losses and sadly, to a lesser degree, graduating players. Marshall wins and graduates players. He has some players transfer, but all in all, he graduates kids. There are also very few issues of kids getting in trouble under his watch.

I have said this before, but I'll say it again, on court antics directly relate to what the head coach will allow. I really kind of think that Weems would be seen in a different light had Cuonzo not been his coach. Lusk didn't allow that behavior and you didnt see it last year. Cuonzo allowed that behavior and almost seemed to encourage it. Unfortunaty for Weems, you can't take it back.

Now back to Marshall, he may get animated, he might erupt, but he is getting paid a lot of money to win, at the same time, he won't allow Weems like behavior out of his players. God help the Shocker player that showboats in front of the opposing bench under Marshall's watch. And yes, I did, in person, see Weems do this several times.

Coaches are viewed differently? So you are saying the players (who are really just kids) are held to higher standards than a professional coach paid hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars? If so I completely disagree with that. And I would argue that Marshall wasn't or isn't really viewed much differently than Weems on this forum or in the general media (outside of Springfield and Wichita). In fact IMO some of the things Marshall has said have gotten more bad publicity than anything Weems did.

But I do agree with you that I don't dislike either one of them. In fact I admire both of them for their fire and intensity. IMO we could use more of that at times. Some of the best players and coaches in the history of the game have displayed that same fire. Bird and Jordan trash talked constantly. Jerry Sloan was a very fiery and combative coach. Those are pros that come to mind - but there are examples in college basketball too.