Consider NMSU to MVC Olympic Sports Only

[squirrel]

While the travel was probably a concern (and the stated concern), methinks the real reason probably had to do with the northern/southern orientation which is huge in baseball.

That said, Dallas Baptist is still coming on board after the WAC collapse.

[rlh04d]

I think WSU fans would love NMSU in the Valley.

The problem is that the eastern schools have to watch their travel budgets pretty closely and probably couldn't afford adding travel to NM. they would all vote against NM. My understanding is that it takes 7 of the 9 schools to vote to accept a new member. I don't see any possibility of NM getting 7 votes. Too many strapped athletic departments to add that kind of an expense to their current situations.

The issue of NMSU being added illustrates the underlying problem within the conference.

The strongest programs are in favor of whatever makes the conference better. Ironically those program(s) are also most financially able to support such changes, but are in a minority.

Other schools want to maintain the status quo as much as possible and are opposed to anything that raises expenses. The majority of the schools fall in this category.

The issue is that the strongest programs feel that the others are holding them back or making it harder for them to compete over the long term. For years I've called this the "football problem" because so many of the cash strapped schools are in that situation because of football. It is an issue that will continue to haunt the conference for years to come unless everyone can get their priorities in lockstep with one another. This was the issue that caused Creighton to shop around and will probably be the issue that eventually causes WSU to leave. And before anyone says it, let me just say that wanting more doesn't mean that a school feels that they better than everyone else; it just means that a school feels differently about future plans than everyone else.

Unfortunately, I don't know that it is something that can be remedied as certain schools simply cannot afford to do anything else. Finances trump vision.

Agree with every last bit of that.

UNI fans can argue that's just speculation all they want. The financial situation of most members of this conference, and all available expansion history proves this is true. There is a major difference in vision for this conference, and nothing says that better than the non-stop move to make what was once a fairly national conference into just a three or four state conference. This move flies in the face of the expansion movements of every other conference in major college athletics, which all feel that new markets are the best way to expand for television deals. The meaning is pretty clear: We're not interested in media markets, because we don't ever intend to get a television deal. We're interested in UNI being able to bus to games.

And the shots that will be taken against Creighton prove the thinking of most people here. It doesn't matter if Creighton loses for a few years while they adjust to the Big East. Creighton is now a major conference team, with major conference money, and major conference exposure. Creighton will be mocked for making decisions that are creating a foundation for success that will last a generation, while the remaining Valley members can't think past their travel budget for next year.

[TheAsianSensation]

One thing hurting Wichita (and other western friends) is the lack of D1 options. In Nebraska....there's just UNO who just moved up, Nebraska, and Creighton. In Kansas, you just have Wichita, the two Big 12 teams, and UMKC (lol). In Oklahoma, there's just the Big 12 teams, Tulsa (with big boy football), and Oral Bob. Even to the west, Wyoming has just 1 team, Colorado does have 5 but Denver is a cultural misfit and the others play football, and New Mexico just has 2 teams. Arkansas teams all feel more comfortable in southeastern leagues. North Dakota and South Dakota have teams that are all relative D1 newbies. Minnesota has just 1 D1 team.

I mean, at some point, it simply comes to the fact that there's not many western options out there. All the options are out east, fair or not. Geography hates Wichita.

[rlh04d]

Geography hates Wichita.

Boy, does it ever.

The eastern movement really doesn't bother me. It only makes sense to move east regardless, I just dislike people in the east complaining about travel costs to western schools when they could care less what Wichita's travel costs are to the eastern options we look at. Either it matters or it doesn't, but it shouldn't only matter when it affects you.

What really bothers me is adding so many schools in states we're already in. That just screams bush league. Major conferences seek to add new markets ... little conferences seek to consolidate in the markets they're already in to lower travel costs. Our expansion targets clearly indicate to me that we have the goal of being a little conference that buses to their games.

And fine, if that's what the conference wants to be, so be it. But don't blame Creighton for leaving, and don't blame Wichita when we leave. It's not our fault the conference has become filled with teams that have much smaller goals than us. You're not going to have stability in a conference when the goals of members are so different.

[squirrel]

One thing hurting Wichita (and other western friends) is the lack of D1 options. In Nebraska....there's just UNO who just moved up, Nebraska, and Creighton. In Kansas, you just have Wichita, the two Big 12 teams, and UMKC (lol). In Oklahoma, there's just the Big 12 teams, Tulsa (with big boy football), and Oral Bob. Even to the west, Wyoming has just 1 team, Colorado does have 5 but Denver is a cultural misfit and the others play football, and New Mexico just has 2 teams. Arkansas teams all feel more comfortable in southeastern leagues. North Dakota and South Dakota have teams that are all relative D1 newbies. Minnesota has just 1 D1 team.

I mean, at some point, it simply comes to the fact that there's not many western options out there. All the options are out east, fair or not. Geography hates Wichita.

Technically, UMKC is in Missouri.

[Aargh]

It is naive to think that schools voted against Dallas Baptist because they were D2. They're D1 in baseball, they're very good in baseball, and will immediately give Valley baseball teams an RPI boost. There was an effort to IMPROVE the quality of baseball in the MVC and the schools with budgetary challenges voted against it.

Now, all the schools we're looking at to replace CU are schools that will DILUTE the quality of basketball in the league. I imagine that will happen if the travel costs are "affordable" for the budget-challenged schools.

[Snaggletooth]

The Illinois baseball schools voting against Dallas Baptist due to cost of travel once every other year is an example. WSU and CU were livid when that happened a few years ago.

And we know this to be true because why? Do we honestly believe that those schools voted them down because of a few extra bucks every other year? I mean, were talking about maybe 1 extra flight, or 1 extra long bus ride. What's that equate to, $5-10K? Pretty negligible.

Maybe those schools simply thought adding a DII athletic school (literally) to be an associate member was silly, and not worth the hassle.

Well I heard the WSU administration say it failed because there was schools who voted no because of travel.

[isumvc1]

The Illinois baseball schools voting against Dallas Baptist due to cost of travel once every other year is an example. WSU and CU were livid when that happened a few years ago.

And we know this to be true because why? Do we honestly believe that those schools voted them down because of a few extra bucks every other year? I mean, were talking about maybe 1 extra flight, or 1 extra long bus ride. What's that equate to, $5-10K? Pretty negligible.

Maybe those schools simply thought adding a DII athletic school (literally) to be an associate member was silly, and not worth the hassle.

Well I heard the WSU administration say it failed because there was schools who voted no because of travel.

I am fairly certain ILS voted no because of travel. Also, weren't the non baseball playing schools of the MVC allowed to vote the 1st time, and all voted no (Drake, UNI)

[isumvc1]

and back on topic, I'd be fine with NMSU, but it won't happen because of travel expenses. Like someone said, this isn't the 80s anymore. So things are different.

[KC MVC FAN]

One thing hurting Wichita (and other western friends) is the lack of D1 options. In Nebraska....there's just UNO who just moved up, Nebraska, and Creighton. In Kansas, you just have Wichita, the two Big 12 teams, and UMKC (lol). In Oklahoma, there's just the Big 12 teams, Tulsa (with big boy football), and Oral Bob. Even to the west, Wyoming has just 1 team, Colorado does have 5 but Denver is a cultural misfit and the others play football, and New Mexico just has 2 teams. Arkansas teams all feel more comfortable in southeastern leagues. North Dakota and South Dakota have teams that are all relative D1 newbies. Minnesota has just 1 D1 team.

I mean, at some point, it simply comes to the fact that there's not many western options out there. All the options are out east, fair or not. Geography hates Wichita.

Technically, UMKC is in Missouri.

Squirrel, my man. A short geography lesson: The Kansas City Metro area is 2 million plus population. UMKC is in Kansas City, Missouri--not Kansas. Kansas City is a metro area split between Missouri and Kansas--KC MO is a city in MO (400,000 to 500,000 population). KC KS (population o/a 175,000) is a city in Wyandotte County KS and is west across the state line from KC MO. Johnson County Ks is just south across the Kansas River from KC KS. Johnson County has a population o/a 400,000 plus with several towns and cities (Olathe, Overland Park, Lenexa, Shawnee, ++). Back over in Missouri is Independence with 150,000 population, North Kansas City (North side of the Missouri River) and several othe small MO cities and surban towns. And, there are (I think) 5 D1 universities in Missouri: MizzoU, Missouri State, South East Missouri State (?? in the Ohio Valley Conference??), UMKC, and SLU.