Is the Valley a 1-bid conference now?

[MVCfans]

You can't do a blanket comparison for teams joining/leaving conferences, but you can make assumptions. You can assume that Loyola's RPI will increase by playing the Valley, but will still likely be around the 200 mark. While Loyola's RPI will be higher next year than it was this year, so it's tough to just average them into our RPIs, the RPIs of every Valley team will also drop by swapping out a top 25 RPI team for a team around 200. The net result is that the Valley's average RPI will actually be lower than if you just took Loyola's HL RPI and averaged it into ours. Nine teams will have a lower RPI, one team will have a higher RPI.

Right. We currently point out the advantage a single MVC team receives by playing a good RPI opponent and the impact that has on our league as a whole. By adding Loyola, the Valley loses 16 "good RPI" games due to Creighton's loss which will have an impact on the entire conference.

[havoc]

This...their previous RPI doesn't mean anything at this point because they will now play 18 games against Valley teams.

That's not true. Sorry, but the Valley's RPI isn't THAT much better than the Horizon's, that Loyola will suddenly launch itself out of "bad loss" territory, especially when they will inevitably lose more games. The problem with their RPI isn't even really that they played in the Horizon ... it's that they played six games against 300+ RPI teams.

You can't do a blanket comparison for teams joining/leaving conferences, but you can make assumptions. You can assume that Loyola's RPI will increase by playing the Valley, but will still likely be around the 200 mark. While Loyola's RPI will be higher next year than it was this year, so it's tough to just average them into our RPIs, the RPIs of every Valley team will also drop by swapping out a top 25 RPI team for a team around 200. The net result is that the Valley's average RPI will actually be lower than if you just took Loyola's HL RPI and averaged it into ours. Nine teams will have a lower RPI, one team will have a higher RPI.

Seriously? Step back from the ledge. Are you really saying all nine current MVC teams will have a lower RPI next year than last simply because Loyola is joining the conference? Every team in the Valley played at least a few cupcakes last year in the non-con. I know it is pretty late in the game, and it is difficult to get a Creighton calibre team to play you early in the season, but if each Valley member would drop some 250-300 RPI games for even some 150-200 games, the next effect will really not be that much different

[havoc]

You can't do a blanket comparison for teams joining/leaving conferences, but you can make assumptions. You can assume that Loyola's RPI will increase by playing the Valley, but will still likely be around the 200 mark. While Loyola's RPI will be higher next year than it was this year, so it's tough to just average them into our RPIs, the RPIs of every Valley team will also drop by swapping out a top 25 RPI team for a team around 200. The net result is that the Valley's average RPI will actually be lower than if you just took Loyola's HL RPI and averaged it into ours. Nine teams will have a lower RPI, one team will have a higher RPI.

Right. We currently point out the advantage a single MVC team receives by playing a good RPI opponent and the impact that has on our league as a whole. By adding Loyola, the Valley loses 16 "good RPI" games due to Creighton's loss which will have an impact on the entire conference.

I think everyone realizes this and has known it for a long time. However, there aren't any teams out there that are currently at Creighton's caliber knocking down the doors trying to join the Valley. Loyola raises the academic profile of the Valley, keeps a good public/private mix, has strong financial backing, plays in a large market, and offers the largest potential of any of the realistic options out there.

[m-v-c]

Regardless of who we have in the conference it is all about scheduling up and winning some games. People said the same thing when Tulsa left and here we are now with teams making Sweet 16 and Final Four runs. We will be fine...all about winning games.

Completely agree.

The MVC has plenty of programs that are capable of competing for at-large bids on a consistent basis. SIU and MSU both were a couple years ago. Programs just need to get better, and pretty sure that's the goal for all programs. There was a long time when Wichita State and Creighton weren't competing for at-larges...people need to step off the ledge, the league will be just fine.

[Snaggletooth]

fixed so the true history of the MVC is really captured.

1999 - 3 bid
2000 - 2 bid
2001 - 2 bid
2002 - 2 bid
2003 - 2 bid
2004 - 2 bid
2005 - 3 bid
2006 - 4 bid
2007 - 2 bid
2008 - 1 bid
2009 - 1 bid
2010 - 1 bid
2011 - 1 bid
2012 - 2 bids
2013 - 2 bids

Regardless of who we have in the conference it is all about scheduling up and winning some games.

Actually, the real trick is scheduling the best opponents that you KNOW you can beat. That is how you maximize your RPI.

[jackwagon]

Guys step away from the ledge. We were a one big league for that 4 year stretch because as a conference we did not win non conference games against good teams. When your a mid major conference that's what it takes to get multiple bids. MSU fans want to complain about 2011 but they had ZERO quality wins. A 20+ win season is great but if you don't beat quality teams you don't deserve to go dancing.

Adding Loyola will not make us a one bid league again. Losing key non conference games like we did from 2008 to 2011 will. The only valley team that totally deserved a tourney birth in the last decade was the Mo. St. team from like 06 that had an RPI of like 21. Other than that we have gotten what we deserved.

[rlh04d]

Seriously? Step back from the ledge. Are you really saying all nine current MVC teams will have a lower RPI next year than last simply because Loyola is joining the conference? Every team in the Valley played at least a few cupcakes last year in the non-con. I know it is pretty late in the game, and it is difficult to get a Creighton calibre team to play you early in the season, but if each Valley member would drop some 250-300 RPI games for even some 150-200 games, the next effect will really not be that much different

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I don't understand where in my statement you believe I'm standing on a ledge. I'm not claiming the world is going to end. People are making the point that Loyola's RPI will increase by joining the Valley by playing better competition. I have no problem with that argument -- it's true.

However, every single team in this conference just swapped out at a minimum two opportunities for good wins every year with two opportunities for bad losses. Your RPI increases by playing good RPI teams and it decreases by playing bad RPI teams -- even if you LOSE to the good RPI team and BEAT the bad RPI team.

What you're arguing is that if every team in the Valley schedules around Loyola, they can keep their RPIs steady. I'm not denying that. I'm saying that if you hold everything else equal playing Loyola rather than Creighton will drop the RPI of the nine other teams in the Valley. You cannot argue that. Obviously if we all find several top 25 RPI teams to schedule in place of a 200+ RPI on our team from last year, we can correct that ... but you can't seriously think nine teams in this conference are going to find an extra two top 25 RPI teams to play next year to make up for Loyola.

75% of your RPI is based on SOS. The SOS of nine Valley teams just dropped significantly, while Loyola's increased. Thus, every team in this conference just, all else being equal, dropped their RPI, lost two opportunities for good wins on an NCAA resume, and gained two opportunities for a bad loss.

Which part of that do you disagree with?

[sixth ace]

Seriously? Step back from the ledge. Are you really saying all nine current MVC teams will have a lower RPI next year than last simply because Loyola is joining the conference? Every team in the Valley played at least a few cupcakes last year in the non-con. I know it is pretty late in the game, and it is difficult to get a Creighton calibre team to play you early in the season, but if each Valley member would drop some 250-300 RPI games for even some 150-200 games, the next effect will really not be that much different

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

I don't understand where in my statement you believe I'm standing on a ledge. I'm not claiming the world is going to end. People are making the point that Loyola's RPI will increase by joining the Valley by playing better competition. I have no problem with that argument -- it's true.

However, every single team in this conference just swapped out at a minimum two opportunities for good wins every year with two opportunities for bad losses. Your RPI increases by playing good RPI teams and it decreases by playing bad RPI teams -- even if you LOSE to the good RPI team and BEAT the bad RPI team.

What you're arguing is that if every team in the Valley schedules around Loyola, they can keep their RPIs steady. I'm not denying that. I'm saying that if you hold everything else equal playing Loyola rather than Creighton will drop the RPI of the nine other teams in the Valley. You cannot argue that. Obviously if we all find several top 25 RPI teams to schedule in place of a 200+ RPI on our team from last year, we can correct that ... but you can't seriously think nine teams in this conference are going to find an extra two top 25 RPI teams to play next year to make up for Loyola.

75% of your RPI is based on SOS. The SOS of nine Valley teams just dropped significantly, while Loyola's increased. Thus, every team in this conference just, all else being equal, dropped their RPI, lost two opportunities for good wins on an NCAA resume, and gained two opportunities for a bad loss.

Which part of that do you disagree with?

Sweep them and you don't have to worry about their RPI, Yes, it won't be like sweeping
Creighton but perhaps SIU but wait you didn't do that last season even, so where is your beef?

[rlh04d]

Sweep them and you don't have to worry about their RPI, Yes, it won't be like sweeping
Creighton but perhaps SIU but wait you didn't do that last season even, so where is your beef?

Seriously, you could have at least read my post.

Beating Loyola twice is worse for your RPI than losing to Creighton twice.

75% of RPI is calculated by SOS.

My beef is that I cheer for a team that actually goes to the NCAA tournament. I can certainly understand why you don't care, because you don't need to worry about SOS, RPI, or good wins/bad losses when you're playing in the CIT.

[shoxrox]

That was a typical Evansville answer.

You obviously don't understand "big picture". When sweeping a team hurts you more than it helps you, it's not good for the conference.

I'm getting sick and tired of all the poor school ankle-biters wanting sympathy from this move. This conference is all about Illinois and Indiana which collectively haven't done much for basketball in this league in the last half-decade, some even longer.

If WSU exits, then you guys can have all kinds of kumbayah fun in Illinois/Indiana and see where that takes ya.