Mid-Major Madness MVC Preview

[saluki762]

All I know is that when the national analysts are talking about WSU this offseason, they most often say that they no longer consider us a mid-major. Too many schools in this league have always held themselves back because they look at themselves that way. Coach Marshall, the coaching staff, WSU faithful, and most of the national media don't look at us the same as you look at yourselves.

They said the same thing about SIU 6-7 years ago. As long as WSU retains Marshall they will keep saying it. I don't think Marshall is going anywhere, anytime soon. If Marshall leaves, because WSU is in the MVC, WSU is 1 bad hire away from being right back to mid-major in the national analysts eyes. I am not predicting it happens, just saying it can happen easier and faster then expected. Conference affiliation is very important. There are very few MVC fans that want their program to be like Depaul but in the eyes of recruits and national analysts they have more prestige than is deserved. This is why I hold no ill will towards Creighton and would hold none towards WSU or any program that leaves for greener pastures.

[saluki762]

Can someone please confirm that Anthony Beane is still at SIU. He is listed as a departure on this mid major site and I don't recall seeing that anywhere else and don't believe it.

Unless it has happened in the last 24 hours. Beane is still at SIU and so is Pendelton. They both averaged more minutes than Drinkard. That shows how good the research in that preview was. They were right that SIU finishes 10th though. Unfortunately, they were probably also correct that we are worse this year than last.

[Haha]

Finally, thanks for the response.

I thought that didn't as I didn't recall hearing anything about it before reading it on that site.

Good for SIU and the Valley that Beane is still there.

[Sir Sci]

Finally, thanks for the response.

I thought that didn't as I didn't recall hearing anything about it before reading it on that site.

Good for SIU and the Valley that Beane is still there.

Woops, my mistake! Obviously Anthony Beane, Jr. and Anthony Beane are the same person, but they did not appear as the same person on my database, so my apologies.

[saluki762]

Finally, thanks for the response.

I thought that didn't as I didn't recall hearing anything about it before reading it on that site.

Good for SIU and the Valley that Beane is still there.

Woops, my mistake! Obviously Anthony Beane, Jr. and Anthony Beane are the same person, but they did not appear as the same person on my database, so my apologies.

No need to apologize, I don't pay much attention to SIU right now and my family has had season tickets since I was 5.

[rlh04d]

I won't deny that the Shockers are doing everything they can to shed the label but it's not up to them. Until they play in one of the "Big 6" conferences they will always be mid major. George mason had all the attributes you listed above, once the success subsided (and it will go away) all of the glamour went away.

It depends on your definition of "mid-major." Most outlets still define it pretty broadly as everyone outside of the "Big 6." And, as I said, if that's your definition, we're a mid-major and TCU is a major.

Yet we pay our coaching staff more, have far more success, have far more national interest, have far better television ratings, have a far more talented team, etc., etc., etc.

ESPN has often ranked WSU in a category different than other "mid-majors," though. So, again, it's however you want to define it. If it's by conference, yes, we're a mid-major. If it's by anything else, we're not, nor are Gonzaga, Saint Louis, VCU, etc. Different groups of people define it differently.

I would say common sense dictates that there should be more than just "low-major," "mid-major," and "high-major" as distinguishing categories, though, and it should be based on different criteria. TCU is absolutely not in the same category as Duke, and any categorical system that implies they are is worthless.

The "Mid-Major Madness" website covers everyone outside of the Power 6, low-major and mid-major, so maybe I'm even giving that categorical system too much credit. Again, any categorical system that places Wichita State in the same category as the University of Albany is useless.

[Khan4Cats]

It's about perception and what the schools/conference are willing to accept, not just resources and 'success'. The Atlantic 10 refuses to accept the Mid-Major label and they haven't had a Final Four team come out of their conference in a long time. (yes the brought in VCU and Butler, but those schools reached the FF from different conferences). The Missouri Valley years ago decided to embrace the label as an "us against the world" or "lovable underdog" approach and tried to play it up with the CAA and a few other leagues through Bracketbuster, etc. I recall WSU fans recoiling against that approach then and I am not surprised they still do now.

It is what it is, many of our schools are smaller schools in states that struggle to garner the media's attention due to the larger school's influence in their states. They either do not have football or play at a level deemed 'inferior' by the so-called sports experts and big money football industry. Without that media attention and focus even at a local level, it is hard to garner national attention. Wichita is the school that can lead in trying to gain that focus because they have some unique qualities that other schools in the conference don't have in finances, local media focus, etc.

But it will take continued growth from other schools and success apart from Wichita to get the whole conference thought of in different terms as well as a desire to break away from the stereotype and lumping with other small conferences. We need to looking at conferences more similar to ours such as the A-10, the CAA (though now gutted), the Mountain West (even though they have FBS football) to try and establish an identity apart from the lower level conferences. We may never be thought of in the same light as the Big 6 (though I see that shrinking to the Big 5 as I don't think the Big East will maintain their lofty status long-term) but we certainly can be as good as the next group and regularly challenge for multiple bids and national attention.

[AngryShock]

It's about perception and what the schools/conference are willing to accept, not just resources and 'success'. The Atlantic 10 refuses to accept the Mid-Major label and they haven't had a Final Four team come out of their conference in a long time. (yes the brought in VCU and Butler, but those schools reached the FF from different conferences). The Missouri Valley years ago decided to embrace the label as an "us against the world" or "lovable underdog" approach and tried to play it up with the CAA and a few other leagues through Bracketbuster, etc. I recall WSU fans recoiling against that approach then and I am not surprised they still do now.

It is what it is, many of our schools are smaller schools in states that struggle to garner the media's attention due to the larger school's influence in their states. They either do not have football or play at a level deemed 'inferior' by the so-called sports experts and big money football industry. Without that media attention and focus even at a local level, it is hard to garner national attention. Wichita is the school that can lead in trying to gain that focus because they have some unique qualities that other schools in the conference don't have in finances, local media focus, etc.

But it will take continued growth from other schools and success apart from Wichita to get the whole conference thought of in different terms as well as a desire to break away from the stereotype and lumping with other small conferences. We need to looking at conferences more similar to ours such as the A-10, the CAA (though now gutted), the Mountain West (even though they have FBS football) to try and establish an identity apart from the lower level conferences. We may never be thought of in the same light as the Big 6 (though I see that shrinking to the Big 5 as I don't think the Big East will maintain their lofty status long-term) but we certainly can be as good as the next group and regularly challenge for multiple bids and national attention.

This is a post I agree with. To your last paragraph though, this is why many WSU fans are looking for one or two other schools to make a move and help propel the conference forward.

Personally, I see Bradley with that potential. Strong fanbase that if Ford continues to improve, will be in full support and that will help financially. Ford is already fairly decently compensated and I believe BU can and will go higher with success. That could be with Ford or someone else, but the potential is there.

UNI is the odd one for me. They've had good succeess with limited resources. I'm not trying to be insulting here, but I don't know how much more UNI can invest into things. Luckily, Jacobson doesn't seem to be one that will jump for any old job so he can try to continue to build. I'm hopeful that he can continue his success with better athletes and it appears we'll start to find that out soon. That could go a long way for the Cats.

ISU is another that I think is willing to invest, but I'm not sure what their limit is. They do have to fund football and I think their priority is focused on improving that and getting into another conference. I do think that Muller has the right mindset in that he thinks he can build ISU up, time will tell if he has the ability to do so.

We don't know a lot about Loyola, but the money and commitment seem to be there. Time will tell if they can build like they hope to, but I'm not ruling them out and we'll know a lot more about them over the next 3-5 years.

MSU talks a big game, but I have some doubts. Don't get me wrong, I think the potential for success is there, but I'm not sold on the commitment of the university. Bears fans will jump me for this, but from the outside looking in on the other MVC teams, I'm not sold.

I'm not sure about Indiana State. I like Lansing, but I'm not sure how long he'll be there and I have no idea what kind of commitment they have to pushing that program higher. I get the feeling that they're content with living on knowing they had Larry Bird and that's it. I think they could be a lot more especially since they're in such a basketball crazy state, but I'm not sure if they want it enough.

No offense intended to my friends from Drake and Evansville, but I don't see either being able to be one of the teams that helps us move forward. Not that they can't have good years from time to time, I'm just not sure they have the ability to maintain a program on the level we're talking about.

And I forgot about SIU. They can get better, but I'm not sure how much they want to commit to the program again, especially for a coach, after the last debacle.

But, if we could get three teams as a whole to find to resources and commitment to being at the top and competing nationally on a consistent basis, I think it would help the rest of the conference and the perception of us. I feel confident that WSU is all in with basketball and will do whatever it takes, I feel good about BU, but after that, I'm not sure who takes that step. I do believe a number of the potential to do so, but I'll wait and see who jumps.

[bleach]

If all you look at is one sport, mid-major is easy to define. If you look at overall sports program it isn't as clear. If you include endowments, enrollments, academic programs, etc. it gets even muddier.
Is Rice a major because they are a top 10 Baseball school? Is TCU a mid because their Basketball falls lower than Gonzaga?
Overall success and conference affilliation determine the label rather than success at a sport or two.

If you want to say WSU is a major in Basketball, that would depend on the timeframe. Gonzaga is a top Basketball program but not a major university (they are mid-major at best).