Poll Watch [MVC Edition]

[Black]

This program is one coaching change to falling and falling big time. See SIU.

I for one will be in celebration when that happens. Lot of Shocker fans make them a team you can not cheer for, Valley or not.

Difference between WSU and SIU...money. WSU has the money to bring in someone that can sustain the program when needed and SIU couldn't fire Lowrey because they couldn't afford to.

You do realize I hope, that SIU made 6 consecutive NCAA appearances; right now you have two. Would seem prudent that before claiming superior sustainability you would probably need at least 5 more consecutive appearances. Not trying to rain on the current Shocker status, just reminding those who tend to forget how good SIU was for a sustained period.

We always appreciate your need to keep WSU fans, and only WSU fans, in check, even if you are a bit off-kilter yet again.

SIU has had a much longer sustained amount of success, but as Snaggletooth mentioned, WSU has done A LOT more in that short time to bring in wins, notoriety, and $$ to this conference. WSU has been ranked higher than SIU ever obtained in the polls. They also obviously have won more NCAA games in that timeframe than SIU did in their 6. In that last 7 years, WSU has had 3 appearances, 2 total Sweet 16's and a Final Four, compared to 2 Sweet 16's for SIU during their run. Now I'm not trying to diminish the SIU run because it was stellar and kept the Valley relevant during that time period, but let's please not act like WSU is chopped liver either.

And remembering back at ValleyTalk, I would say there was a much larger Saluki presence there than WSU presence here and a lot of them were quite obnoxious.

[Black]

I for one am glad to see a MVC team ranked as high as they are. Wish there were more. Now remember if you want to return to the Final Four you will need to lose to us at least once. (A joke)

[BEARZ77]

We always appreciate your need to keep WSU fans, and only WSU fans, in check, even if you are a bit off-kilter yet again.

SIU has had a much longer sustained amount of success, but as Snaggletooth mentioned, WSU has done A LOT more in that short time to bring in wins, notoriety, and $$ to this conference. WSU has been ranked higher than SIU ever obtained in the polls. They also obviously have won more NCAA games in that timeframe than SIU did in their 6. In that last 7 years, WSU has had 3 appearances, 2 total Sweet 16's and a Final Four, compared to 2 Sweet 16's for SIU during their run. Now I'm not trying to diminish the SIU run because it was stellar and kept the Valley relevant during that time period, but let's please not act like WSU is chopped liver either.

And remembering back at ValleyTalk, I would say there was a much larger Saluki presence there than WSU presence here and a lot of them were quite obnoxious.

I don't see anything off kilter in my comment. The comment had to do with sustainability not impact. You can't just change the whole focus of the original comment and then act as if that disproves the factual information that 2 years does not equate to 6 in sustainability. You want to start another topic about impact then indeed you will be right in your assertions. Why is it so hard to let another University have it's proven status; SIU earned their status as the elite program in this league over about a decade. Why can't you let that just stand on it's own.
And where did any one refer to WSU as chopped liver; this is why it's so hard to have civil debate here. A point of fact gets introduced and it gets treated as an attack and then exaggerated statements that never took place get thrown into the mix as if they were actually said. All I said was you can't make a case for superior sustainability until you actually do it. Where is any put down or untruth in that. I realize it gives attention to another program and that appears to be taboo with some on here, but it is truth and it did not diminish WSU in anyway other than not supporting the original contention about their superior sustainability.

[Snaggletooth]

sustainability? Since WSU has came back from the Abyss (12 seasons, not counting this one):

1- 30 win seasons
6 - 20 wins season
11 winnings seasons, 1 - 0.500 season
2x MVC #1
5x MVC #2
1x MVC #2
Only 1 Abyss finish (i.e. >6th place)

3x NCAA (1 sweet 16, 1 final 4)
5x NIT (1 championship)

Overall record (including this year)
265-141 record (87%)

[glm38]

This program is one coaching change to falling and falling big time. See SIU.

I for one will be in celebration when that happens. Lot of Shocker fans make them a team you can not cheer for, Valley or not.

Difference between WSU and SIU...money. WSU has the money to bring in someone that can sustain the program when needed and SIU couldn't fire Lowrey because they couldn't afford to.

I don't totally agree with this. WSU definitely has the $$ to pay a coach well. But if you lose Marshall at some point that's no guarantee at all of a great next hire. It certainly helps I'll give you that. But lots of DI schools have big $$ to spend but still make a poor hire. And it just takes one poor or mediocre hire to set a program back years.

[AndShock]

This program is one coaching change to falling and falling big time. See SIU.

I for one will be in celebration when that happens. Lot of Shocker fans make them a team you can not cheer for, Valley or not.

Difference between WSU and SIU...money. WSU has the money to bring in someone that can sustain the program when needed and SIU couldn't fire Lowrey because they couldn't afford to.

I don't totally agree with this. WSU definitely has the $$ to pay a coach well. But if you lose Marshall at some point that's no guarantee at all of a great next hire. It certainly helps I'll give you that. But lots of DI schools have big $$ to spend but still make a poor hire. And it just takes one poor or mediocre hire to set a program back years.

I can agree with this. Another thing to consider is that if ANY program, Duke/KU/UCLA/UK make a horrible hire, they're going to be set back a few years also. If Marshall leaves and we happen to make a horrible hire, we aren't going to have the resources of the blue bloods to right the ship, but we're going to have more than SIU or any other member of the Valley who manages to put together sustained success and then falls into the abyss.

[Black]

I don't see anything off kilter in my comment. The comment had to do with sustainability not impact. You can't just change the whole focus of the original comment and then act as if that disproves the factual information that 2 years does not equate to 6 in sustainability. You want to start another topic about impact then indeed you will be right in your assertions. Why is it so hard to let another University have it's proven status; SIU earned their status as the elite program in this league over about a decade. Why can't you let that just stand on it's own.
And where did any one refer to WSU as chopped liver; this is why it's so hard to have civil debate here. A point of fact gets introduced and it gets treated as an attack and then exaggerated statements that never took place get thrown into the mix as if they were actually said. All I said was you can't make a case for superior sustainability until you actually do it. Where is any put down or untruth in that. I realize it gives attention to another program and that appears to be taboo with some on here, but it is truth and it did not diminish WSU in anyway other than not supporting the original contention about their superior sustainability.

Your initial post really had nothing to do with anything. Snaggletooth made a true statement about SIU's money problems after their last coaching debacle and you randomly took it as some sort of slam on SIU (even though you aren't an SIU fan). Snaggletoth spoke with fact and you pointed out something totally irrelevant. Nobody was arguing about the 6 sustained years of success SIU had. You just threw that out there.

Snaggletooth then presented more facts to the new argument you threw out there. It just seems like you can't wait to rain on WSU's parade or throw in a negative remark whenever given the chance. You don't have to say something positive by any means, but for God's sake, chill out with the WSU shots. I don't think you would like it if a particular fan started ripping on MSU at every chance possible.

[BEARZ77]

I don't see anything off kilter in my comment. The comment had to do with sustainability not impact. You can't just change the whole focus of the original comment and then act as if that disproves the factual information that 2 years does not equate to 6 in sustainability. You want to start another topic about impact then indeed you will be right in your assertions. Why is it so hard to let another University have it's proven status; SIU earned their status as the elite program in this league over about a decade. Why can't you let that just stand on it's own.
And where did any one refer to WSU as chopped liver; this is why it's so hard to have civil debate here. A point of fact gets introduced and it gets treated as an attack and then exaggerated statements that never took place get thrown into the mix as if they were actually said. All I said was you can't make a case for superior sustainability until you actually do it. Where is any put down or untruth in that. I realize it gives attention to another program and that appears to be taboo with some on here, but it is truth and it did not diminish WSU in anyway other than not supporting the original contention about their superior sustainability.

Your initial post really had nothing to do with anything. Snaggletooth made a true statement about SIU's money problems after their last coaching debacle and you randomly took it as some sort of slam on SIU (even though you aren't an SIU fan). Snaggletoth spoke with fact and you pointed out something totally irrelevant. Nobody was arguing about the 6 sustained years of success SIU had. You just threw that out there.

Snaggletooth then presented more facts to the new argument you threw out there. It just seems like you can't wait to rain on WSU's parade or throw in a negative remark whenever given the chance. You don't have to say something positive by any means, but for God's sake, chill out with the WSU shots. I don't think you would like it if a particular fan started ripping on MSU at every chance possible.

If that's how you need to paint it for yourself. Have a nice night.

[shocker3]

It would be nice to see Missouri State getting some votes in the polls.

[agrinut]

It would be nice to see Missouri State getting some votes in the polls.

That it would but not likely, now find away to beat the cardinals and get all the way to the WSU @ MSU game without a loss and we could be in business.