Top 144: Northern Iowa ranked #53

[Wufan]

Imagine:

http://www.midmajormadness.com/missouri ... urple-aces

I thought WSU and Gonzaga had been removed from this label? There's zero mid anything about WSU now.

Now, that's funny.
I appreciate as much as most what SHOX has done over the last 5-6 seasons. But, to link ZAGS and SHOX, is unfair to Gonzaga.
ZAGS, have been ranked top 25, since 98-99, including seventeen consecutive NCAA bids, countless All Americans and a National Player of the Year.

In the 2028-29 season, if SHOX has made every tournament, continued their top 25 ranking, can list a dozen AA and a POTY only then can they be compared to what ZAGS have accomplished....Which is also a Mid-Major Program.

Agreed that Gonzaga's sustained success is far more impressive than WSU's run. 17 years vs 4. That said, you can't compare WSU from 1999 to 2011 to Gonzaga...they blow us away. However, you can compare WSU to Gonzaga over the first 4 years of prominence and it tells you something about the two programs.

WSU record: 122-20
Gonzaga record: 109-27

WSU NCAA results: Rd of 64, Final 4, Rd of 32, Sweet 16
Gonzaga NCAA results: Elite 8, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Rd of 64

WSU All-Americans: 3
Gonzaga All-Americans: 2

If that isn't enough, you can compare both programs over the last 4 years.

WSU record: 122-20
Gonzaga record: 122-20

WSU NCAA results: Rd of 64, Final 4, Rd of 32, Sweet 16
Gonzaga NCAA results: Rd of 32, Rd of 32, Rd of 32, Elite 8

WSU All-Americans: 3
Gonzaga All-Americans: 3

[COUTEAU]

I never meant to begin a pissing contest, trying to equate SHOX and ZAGS. Geez, quite the opposite, I even posted props to SHOX on their resent success.
My point was that as good as SHOX has been....their domination of THE VALLEY, & string of four consecutive NCAA appearances doesn't qualify the program to be considered a (non)Mid-Major.
Same with ZAGS, with their run in THE WCC.
If what SHOX has accomplished could bump a program up to elite status, after 4 seasons, then ZAGS should have had that honor almost 15 years ago.
Look at what BUTLER did....five straight NCAA bids, including 2 National Championship appearances, and they were still labeled a "Mid-Major". It wasn't until BUTLER jumped conferences (not once, but twice) was that program considered anything other than Mid-Major.

Wasn't trying to have my posted comment, interpreted as degrading to SHOX or their basketball program.
Just was pointing to the fact that until SHOX moves on to a different conference, they'll continue to be labeled, "Mid-Major".

go valley

[Wufan]

I never meant to begin a pissing contest, trying to equate SHOX and ZAGS. Geez, quite the opposite, I even posted props to SHOX on their resent success.
My point was that as good as SHOX has been....their domination of THE VALLEY, & string of four consecutive NCAA appearances doesn't qualify the program to be considered a (non)Mid-Major.
Same with ZAGS, with their run in THE WCC.
If what SHOX has accomplished could bump a program up to elite status, after 4 seasons, then ZAGS should have had that honor almost 15 years ago.
Look at what BUTLER did....five straight NCAA bids, including 2 National Championship appearances, and they were still labeled a "Mid-Major". It wasn't until BUTLER jumped conferences (not once, but twice) was that program considered anything other than Mid-Major.

Wasn't trying to have my posted comment, interpreted as degrading to SHOX or their basketball program.
Just was pointing to the fact that until SHOX moves on to a different conference, they'll continue to be labeled, "Mid-Major".

go valley

I appreciate the clarification. It must have been that part about, comparing WSU to the Zags is unfair to Gonzaga, that had us all confused about your intent.

[Cdizzle]

I never meant to begin a pissing contest, trying to equate SHOX and ZAGS. Geez, quite the opposite, I even posted props to SHOX on their resent success.
My point was that as good as SHOX has been....their domination of THE VALLEY, & string of four consecutive NCAA appearances doesn't qualify the program to be considered a (non)Mid-Major.
Same with ZAGS, with their run in THE WCC.
If what SHOX has accomplished could bump a program up to elite status, after 4 seasons, then ZAGS should have had that honor almost 15 years ago.
Look at what BUTLER did....five straight NCAA bids, including 2 National Championship appearances, and they were still labeled a "Mid-Major". It wasn't until BUTLER jumped conferences (not once, but twice) was that program considered anything other than Mid-Major.

Wasn't trying to have my posted comment, interpreted as degrading to SHOX or their basketball program.
Just was pointing to the fact that until SHOX moves on to a different conference, they'll continue to be labeled, "Mid-Major".

go valley

I appreciate the clarification. It must have been that part about, comparing WSU to the Zags is unfair to Gonzaga, that had us all confused about your intent.

Ah. I thought it was the "now that's funny" and "only then can they be compared" comments that were misleading.

[COUTEAU]

I do think it would be unfair, for SHOX to leap-frog ZAGS, in being declared above Mid-Major level.
ZAGS, for 17 consecutive seasons, have been among the field of 64/68. It will take an additional 13 straight years, for SHOX to even equal that accomplishment.
That's like equally comparing two schools, from the same conference....each with a 20 plus game win season, one finished on a win streak of 4. The other, 17.
Would that be fair to the team with the 17?

It would almost be like saying, "The season ACES swept SHOX, should have more value than, SHOX run to the Final Four". That would be completely ludicrous, to even suggest that.
SHOX raised the bar, for all VALLEY schools. Same as ZAGS, have raised the bar for all Mid-Majors.

That's all I meant as being, "funny"....It just ain't gonna happen.

go valley

[Wufan]

I do think it would be unfair, for SHOX to leap-frog ZAGS, in being declared above Mid-Major level.
ZAGS, for 17 consecutive seasons, have been among the field of 64/68. It will take an additional 13 straight years, for SHOX to even equal that accomplishment.
That's like equally comparing two schools, from the same conference....each with a 20 plus game win season, one finished on a win streak of 4. The other, 17.
Would that be fair to the team with the 17?

It would almost be like saying, "The season ACES swept SHOX, should have more value than, SHOX run to the Final Four". That would be completely ludicrous, to even suggest that.
SHOX raised the bar, for all VALLEY schools. Same as ZAGS, have raised the bar for all Mid-Majors.

That's all I meant as being, "funny"....It just ain't gonna happen.

go valley

It wasn't suggested that the Shox leap-frog them. It was suggested that BOTH were beyond the label.

Also, your analogy is all wrong. Both programs are in the midst of their runs, so there's no "finished" with a win streak, just a streak where one is further along. Your argument about us having to get to 17 is like a 17 year old saying to a four year old, in 13 years, we will be the same age. Four (maybe five) years ago we started our run, and Gonzaga was 12-13 years in. Someone may have said, do for 13 years and we will talk. It continues perpetually. Both teams are in the midst of their golden age. When they run parallel, you can't catch up unless someone starts sucking, at which point they won't be similar any more.

[Ace75]

I wouldn't call Wichita State or Gonzaga mid majors. They have done more than 75% of the power conferences. ( I might be off on the percentage ) so don't blast me on that. Both have proven it wasn't a fluke. I love what both are doing. Just because you're in a major conference doesn't mean anything if you suck. I'm tired of the stereotype that all these basketball experts give the big schools. I love it every time David knocks off Goliath as they see it. I had several people tell me I was crazy for taking WSU so far in my bracket last year. My response was they can play with anybody in the country.

[mathewson10]

"Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences"

The label Mid-Major is not based off how good a team is. It's based off what conference you are in. It has nothing to do with success. Nebraska & Northwestern are horrible at basketball traditionally but they would not be considered mid-major programs because of the conference they are in.

[Wufan]

"Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences"

The label Mid-Major is not based off how good a team is. It's based off what conference you are in. It has nothing to do with success. Nebraska & Northwestern are horrible at basketball traditionally but they would not be considered mid-major programs because of the conference they are in.

Yet the Big East isn't considered Mid-Major.

[Championz]

"Mid-major is a term used in American NCAA Division I college sports, especially men's basketball, to refer to athletic conferences that are not among the so-called "Power Five conferences"

The label Mid-Major is not based off how good a team is. It's based off what conference you are in. It has nothing to do with success. Nebraska & Northwestern are horrible at basketball traditionally but they would not be considered mid-major programs because of the conference they are in.

Yet the Big East isn't considered Mid-Major.

The old Big East wasn't. The new Big East is.