Two More ISU Players Arrested

[mule]

Over Thanksgiving break 2004, 3 UE players were arrested for stealing electronics from dorm rooms and were dismissed from school. The player identified as the "brains" of the theft was a very talented guard with a questionable background and dragged 2 other players down that road. The results ended up erasing any progress Merfield had started with the program and probably a tightening of standards for future recruits. As you are all aware, UE still hasn't recovered. Hopefully the Redbirds won't face the same future.

[Cdizzle]

I can remember being 20. I can remember doing a lot of things that were dumb.

I can't remember ever going "Hey, stealing s*** sounds like a good idea"

I realize fans are homers but you can't justify that kind of stupidity. The reason it keeps happening at Illinois State is because Muller continues to put basketball over character. And the way he does his "disciplining", it's no wonder the same thing happens time and time again.

So what part of Wichita are you from?

1. It's possible this poster is from Wichita. Or a WSU fan. But you don't know.
2. Even IF that is the case, that fact would make nothing in his/her post incorrect on it's own. The facts are what they are.

I don't think anyone is saying these players need their lives ruined over these issues. But from the outside it isn't difficult to see the numerous events in a rather short time period under one administration, with relatively light consequences. Muller's in a tough spot because his previous disciplinary actions have been weak. He needs the ability to make an example of someone to demonstrate he's in control, but he isn't being given that opportunity in a way that wouldn't significantly hurt ISU's chance to win games. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

It is really sad that this sort of thing has a group of people defending driving drunk and stealing other people's property as "silly college kid" behavior. When it happens every once in a while at a program, it's a little bit of a black eye and the program/fans usually get ridiculed for a couple of days. Then everybody moves on. When it happens multiple times every year, it tends to not really go away. And when said fans have run around claiming their coach runs the tightest of ships but then decide to make little of DUIs and stolen property, you probably just have to sit back and take what's coming.

UNI is a great example. There have been a small number of really boneheaded things done by their student athletes over the past 10 years. By and large, those athletes were given REAL disciplinary actions. Actions that occurred even if it meant lessening UNIs chances to win. So when something happens there again, we'll see "well wasn't that stupid" for a couple days and then everyone will move on.

[specialsauce]

So what part of Wichita are you from?

Solid response and deflection.

[Old School MVC]

Over Thanksgiving break 2004, 3 UE players were arrested for stealing electronics from dorm rooms and were dismissed from school. The player identified as the "brains" of the theft was a very talented guard with a questionable background and dragged 2 other players down that road. The results ended up erasing any progress Merfield had started with the program and probably a tightening of standards for future recruits. As you are all aware, UE still hasn't recovered. Hopefully the Redbirds won't face the same future.

This is probably what makes it so hard for coaches to be too big of enforcers. Every fan on here wants their team to win, and if ISUr suspends those players they will not, and they take the risk of something close to what happened at UE. The coach has the most to lose, if he keeps them on the team and wins, the ISUr fans are happy, but his chance to advance to the next level of coaching is tarnished. If he boots them all, and they lose, will he even get his own contract renewed (remember he is the one who recruited these characters). I would have to think that Bloomington Illinois is not a destination job, but just a stepping stone to a better coaching position. Muller needs to think long and hard before he makes his decision. We all agree that the right thing to do is boot all three of them, but in reality, Muller is probably in “Cover your a**” mode, which means he is doing what is best for himself, not the reputation of the team school.

[Cdizzle]

We all agree that the right thing to do is boot all three of them,

I'm not sure I agree with this.

There are things that can be done to hold people accountable without necessarily kicking them off the team.

[specialsauce]

1. It's possible this poster is from Wichita. Or a WSU fan. But you don't know.
2. Even IF that is the case, that fact would make nothing in his/her post incorrect on it's own. The facts are what they are.

I don't think anyone is saying these players need their lives ruined over these issues. But from the outside it isn't difficult to see the numerous events in a rather short time period under one administration, with relatively light consequences. Muller's in a tough spot because his previous disciplinary actions have been weak. He needs the ability to make an example of someone to demonstrate he's in control, but he isn't being given that opportunity in a way that wouldn't significantly hurt ISU's chance to win games. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

It is really sad that this sort of thing has a group of people defending driving drunk and stealing other people's property as "silly college kid" behavior. When it happens every once in a while at a program, it's a little bit of a black eye and the program/fans usually get ridiculed for a couple of days. Then everybody moves on. When it happens multiple times every year, it tends to not really go away. And when said fans have run around claiming their coach runs the tightest of ships but then decide to make little of DUIs and stolen property, you probably just have to sit back and take what's coming.

UNI is a great example. There have been a small number of really boneheaded things done by their student athletes over the past 10 years. By and large, those athletes were given REAL disciplinary actions. Actions that occurred even if it meant lessening UNIs chances to win. So when something happens there again, we'll see "well wasn't that stupid" for a couple days and then everyone will move on.

I think the most disturbing aspect of all of this is the Redbird fan reaction on their message board. We all know Muller's stance with all of the shenanigans that happen annually in Normal so that won't be surprising. But I'm a little appalled by a lot of Redbird fans laughing these offenses off as nothing or think an exhibition game suspension is satisfactory. I don't know if it's the redundancy of the issues or the desperateness to field a relevant basketball team that's generating that type of response. Either way, it's sad.

[mule]

I would think the onus of punishment should fall to the school administration and/or the AD. The coach is a part of the solution and would be following the direction of his superiors. In the end, however, it will be his butt that is on the line.

[Old School MVC]

We all agree that the right thing to do is boot all three of them,

I'm not sure I agree with this.

There are things that can be done to hold people accountable without necessarily kicking them off the team.

So which one would you rather have as a teammate?

-Someone who drives drunk putting those in his car, himself and anyone else on the road that night lives in jeopardy
or
-a thief that you can not trust to leave anything out in the locker room that has any value because it may be gone when you get back

[UEACES80]

I would think the onus of punishment should fall to the school administration and/or the AD. The coach is a part of the solution and would be following the direction of his superiors. In the end, however, it will be his butt that is on the line.

Well said Mule - Dupree Fletcher was a high level recruit (Nelson and Butler were the other two) for Merfeld and yes the school Admin decided it was bigger than the Athletic Dept. though I am not certain if the Athletic Dept disagreed with the decision.

[Stickboy46]

1. It's possible this poster is from Wichita. Or a WSU fan. But you don't know.
2. Even IF that is the case, that fact would make nothing in his/her post incorrect on it's own. The facts are what they are.

I don't think anyone is saying these players need their lives ruined over these issues. But from the outside it isn't difficult to see the numerous events in a rather short time period under one administration, with relatively light consequences. Muller's in a tough spot because his previous disciplinary actions have been weak. He needs the ability to make an example of someone to demonstrate he's in control, but he isn't being given that opportunity in a way that wouldn't significantly hurt ISU's chance to win games. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

It is really sad that this sort of thing has a group of people defending driving drunk and stealing other people's property as "silly college kid" behavior. When it happens every once in a while at a program, it's a little bit of a black eye and the program/fans usually get ridiculed for a couple of days. Then everybody moves on. When it happens multiple times every year, it tends to not really go away. And when said fans have run around claiming their coach runs the tightest of ships but then decide to make little of DUIs and stolen property, you probably just have to sit back and take what's coming.

UNI is a great example. There have been a small number of really boneheaded things done by their student athletes over the past 10 years. By and large, those athletes were given REAL disciplinary actions. Actions that occurred even if it meant lessening UNIs chances to win. So when something happens there again, we'll see "well wasn't that stupid" for a couple days and then everyone will move on.

I think the most disturbing aspect of all of this is the Redbird fan reaction on their message board. We all know Muller's stance with all of the shenanigans that happen annually in Normal so that won't be surprising. But I'm a little appalled by a lot of Redbird fans laughing these offenses off as nothing or think an exhibition game suspension is satisfactory. I don't know if it's the redundancy of the issues or the desperateness to field a relevant basketball team that's generating that type of response. Either way, it's sad.

This is exactly what I was thinking too. People suggesting that a DUI (after multiple other offenses, and at least one prior suspension) or theft should result in only missing an exhibition game is pathetic.

IMO at minimum they should lose their scholarship. Part of that scholarship is because you are a face to the university and represent them. They didn't hold up their end. Hawkins should be off the team just because of the multiple offenses. The other two should probably be booted too. That's an integrity issue and is a worse character item than the DUI. The DUI has a far greater potential impact, but I doubt anyone goes into that situation with the intent to harm someone. Its a lapse in judgement with very dire possible consequences. The theft charge obviously isn't as large of consequences, but when they committed it they were fully aware it would cause harm to someone else and still did it. That's a problem.