MVC going to 12 with UIC and UTA?

[BCPanther]

Being in an all-sports league with NDSU should be a hard no from everybody. They tear leagues apart like Texas does all while bringing in next to nothing revenue-wise. They're a cancer.

[VUGrad1314]

The thing with St. Thomas is if you bring them in you really don't have an excuse for the Dakotas anymore. It's like an extra 1 hour in the plane

The big problem that I see with the Dakotas is can you bring in just 1? Or do all 4 need to come? I'd take SDSU but I don't want to add 3 other schools just to get them.

Truth. I'd do one more (NDSU or USD whoever wants in) but not all three USD brings another elite women's basketball program which is really nice to have and NDSU is a solid all around department but I don't think we help enough with their football ambitions and if they make good on those it might hurt their competitiveness in other sports because so much more money would have to go to football. There's risk with everything and we don't want to water down the league too much. Any additions we make have to make the league stronger. We're already taking a risk on UIC who admittedly could and does bring a solid overall department just not in men's basketball). SDSU makes the league better. St Thomas might. NDSU could. USD has one elite sport it would seem but not a ton else. If St Thomas can show enough potential I would be all for a St Thomas SDSU pairing to go to 14 if such a thing would be feasible. That's the kind of thing the league needs to be looking at. If we continue our southern direction Bellarmine is worth keeping an eye on too not for immediate inclusion but as a potential candidate.

[Drakey]

The thing with St. Thomas is if you bring them in you really don't have an excuse for the Dakotas anymore. It's like an extra 1 hour in the plane

St. Thomas is in a major metropolitan market and is one of only two D1 schools in the state. It is my understanding that they are also loaded with money. not that anybody needs an excuse, but there is a big difference. Problem is if they ever got good they would hop to the A10 just like Loyola.

[tribecalledquest]

The thing with St. Thomas is if you bring them in you really don't have an excuse for the Dakotas anymore. It's like an extra 1 hour in the plane

St. Thomas is in a major metropolitan market and is one of only two D1 schools in the state. It is my understanding that they are also loaded with money. not that anybody needs an excuse, but there is a big difference. Problem is if they ever got good they would hop to the A10 just like Loyola.

I wouldn't worry about a team jumping to the A-10. I am high on St. Thomas over any of the other potential candidates out there.

[VUGrad1314]

The thing with St. Thomas is if you bring them in you really don't have an excuse for the Dakotas anymore. It's like an extra 1 hour in the plane

St. Thomas is in a major metropolitan market and is one of only two D1 schools in the state. It is my understanding that they are also loaded with money. not that anybody needs an excuse, but there is a big difference. Problem is if they ever got good they would hop to the A10 just like Loyola.

Assuming the A-10 would want them and all of that travel. Minneapolis in that league would be about as remote as SLU was before Loyola was added. It's one thing to add Loyola as something of a bridge between Dayton and SLU it's quite another to add St Thomas to an east coast league. I think the Tommies would be here for the long haul and like I said I would want the MVC to snap them up the instant they show even a hint of potential. They could be a really good add.

[IllinoisState]

The thing with St. Thomas is you if you bring them in you really don't have an excuse for the Dakotas anymore

Good. The MVC should do it (especially for SDSU).

Assuming the UIC addition formally goes through, I'll be very happy with the two adds. One very solid program and one school with potential in a large market. I hope the conference decides to stand pat for awhile and see where things go before bringing on any other additions.

I don't think we'll be able to find another addition like Murray State in the next round of alignment as there aren't many programs left like them that aren't already in conferences perceived to be better than the MVC so we'll probably have to focus on markets. Wright State seems like a 'Murray State lite' but I would be concerned that they could turn into another Valparaiso type add where they struggle to compete against improved competition. I think Omaha, UMKC, Denver, NKU, St. Thomas, and UTA are all schools that we should continue to monitor to see if they have sustained success in Men's basketball as well as other sports important to the conference.

I don't see Omaha and Denver making the commitment to basketball because of hockey. UMKC already rejected making a financial commitment and so did NKU. I don't know what UTA said. I'm not against adding St. Thomas if the right situation appears and they have more and continued success.

Apparently UTA to the MVC was almost a done deal under Elgin according to Matt Brown but the sticking point was not travel or distance but money. UTA didn't want to pay the entrance fee to the MVC and the MVC refused to waive it. Brown suspects that even despite the leadership changes one big stumbling block to MVC membership for UTA was simply hurt feelings over that decision. If that's the case then we don't want or need them. Maybe if they show some success and reconsider we can reevaluate that but right now good luck in the WAC then. St Thomas would be a great and very interesting add. As I said before they are the closest thing to a Loyola analogue that the MVC could realistically grab. I would be monitoring them closely and with great interest if I were the MVC.

Here's the Matt Brown stuff if anyone's interested.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-935663-page-22.html

The money they have available and their so far emphasis they place on sports is good. I think they could throw around some money and rationalize it if they start doing well.

Good for the MVC for sticking to it. If schools aren't willing to spend what little is asked to improve facilities, set aside for buy games, or entrance fees then they wouldn't be a good fit for the Valley.

The thing with St. Thomas is if you bring them in you really don't have an excuse for the Dakotas anymore. It's like an extra 1 hour in the plane

The big problem that I see with the Dakotas is can you bring in just 1? Or do all 4 need to come? I'd take SDSU but I don't want to add 3 other schools just to get them.

I would not want to go to 16. 14 way max and the right situation in my mind could also be if one team leaves. So adding St. Thomas would only leave space for one more. I have to imagine that either both North Dakota schools or both XDSUs would want to come along if the other did and the only one that seems ok quality-wise is SDSU.

[BearsCountry]

The time to bring NDSU and SDSU was 10 years ago. Ship has sailed now. I guarantee they would have put the resources into being excellent members. But it was short sighted move from the MVC. We would have the FOX Sports North added to the MVC network. USD and UND would be out in the Big Sky and non factors, Omaha and St. Thomas probably wouldn't have moved up. Lots of talent in the Twin Cities, Omaha, and Wisconsin that would end up on MVC rosters in all sports going to those teams. The Summit League is now a very solid respectable league since the early Mid-Con days. Football problems would have been taken care. Loyola and Murray State could have replaced Creighton and the Shuckheads when they left.

Besides I would love to seen the Shuckheads and Bizon fan bases go after each other.

[Drakey]

I don't want any Dakotas. They add nothing. Just make the league look worse.

[VUGrad1314]

I don't want any Dakotas. They add nothing. Just make the league look worse.

Why does adding a state flagship even in a small state make the league look worse?

[Action10]

The time to bring NDSU and SDSU was 10 years ago. Ship has sailed now. I guarantee they would have put the resources into being excellent members. But it was short sighted move from the MVC. We would have the FOX Sports North added to the MVC network. USD and UND would be out in the Big Sky and non factors, Omaha and St. Thomas probably wouldn't have moved up. Lots of talent in the Twin Cities, Omaha, and Wisconsin that would end up on MVC rosters in all sports going to those teams. The Summit League is now a very solid respectable league since the early Mid-Con days. Football problems would have been taken care. Loyola and Murray State could have replaced Creighton and the Shuckheads when they left.

Besides I would love to seen the Shuckheads and Bizon fan bases go after each other.

I think I disagree with all of that.
If all of these things happened as you claimed they would, what teams would currently make up the Summit League?