Too early 2018-19 predictions

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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby Spike » August 16th, 2018, 4:33 pm

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:2. Hinson has never made it to the tournament (although he was one of the most egregious snubs in history).

Can we please quit with this revisionist history?

Missouri State played one RPI top 50 team in OOC that year and lost. They went 4-6 against the RPI top 50 in conference. 7 of their 9 non-conference games came against trams with an RPI of 127 or higher. 3 of those over 200. They lost in the first round of the Valley tournament.

Their resume was awful, to the point that it would have arguably been the worst resume to ever get an at large bid. The only thing Missouri State having an RPI of 24 did was give credence to BCS coaches who said mid majors had found a way to game the system.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby VUGrad1314 » August 16th, 2018, 4:55 pm

So in a way it's Hinson's fault we're in this mess to begin with...
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » August 16th, 2018, 6:01 pm

VUGrad1314 wrote:So in a way it's Hinson's fault we're in this mess to begin with...


Burn him at the stake.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby underdawg » August 16th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Spike is the biggest Troll on the net-nuff said
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby Spike » August 16th, 2018, 9:33 pm

There is literally nothing trolling about that post. It is a long standing misconception that Missouri State got screwed but that is simply not the case. Their resume was no where near tournament worthy.

Creighton was #41 in the RPI. They went 5-5 against the RPI top 50 in conference. Like Missouri State they played one top 50 team in OOC, excpet they won. Like Missouri State they lost in the 1st round of the Valley tournament. Like Missouri State their OOC schedule outside of that game was not good. Do you think they got screwed too?

No. This is all just revisionist history. They look at the RPI and go "Hinson was screwed" but when you look at the actual resume, you realize that it was awful.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby BEARZ77 » August 17th, 2018, 6:52 am

Spike wrote:There is literally nothing trolling about that post. It is a long standing misconception that Missouri State got screwed but that is simply not the case. Their resume was no where near tournament worthy.

Creighton was #41 in the RPI. They went 5-5 against the RPI top 50 in conference. Like Missouri State they played one top 50 team in OOC, excpet they won. Like Missouri State they lost in the 1st round of the Valley tournament. Like Missouri State their OOC schedule outside of that game was not good. Do you think they got screwed too?

No. This is all just revisionist history. They look at the RPI and go "Hinson was screwed" but when you look at the actual resume, you realize that it was awful.


Except that there were three teams ,most notably Air Force, that had even worse resumes and got at large bids that year. The fact MSU played 11 games against top 50 teams regardless of the fact they were mostly Valley teams is significant; it's not supposed to matter who the teams were or where they come from, just the objective ranking they have. How many Valley teams or even other midmajors play 11 games against top 50 teams in a year. There were a number of pundits who ran blind picks for the tournament following that snub,using known criteria, and in each one MSU got picked ahead of a couple other teams that made the field. You're using the same rationale that the committee uses every year to explain why top level MM are snubbed, looking for reasons to keep them out rather than looking at the positives they use to put low hanging P-5 teams in.How many times does a team from the ACC or Big 12 who has a very mediocre resume get in based on they had 3-4 top 50 wins in conference, most often home games. MSU had warts, no doubt, but they had done more than a few other teams that got bids.

That probably wasn't Barry's worst snub however, his very first year following Alford's team that had made the sweet 16 may have been worse. His team finished 2nd in the MVC, made the championship game in the MVC tourney, but played a dreadful game against Creighton and did not get a bid. In retrospect, that team had a
better RPI, better conference record and finish, and better showing in the MVC tournament than Alford's team did. But they didn't have any really outstanding wins and played their worst game in front of everyone in the tourney final. Barry always had a unique timing for losing really critical games. i'm far from a Barry apologist, and like I said , he had a knack for losing critical games. but he had at least two and possibly three teams that coulda/ shoulda got bids based on who else did those years.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » August 17th, 2018, 8:08 am

To any SIU fans please tell me your feelings on the future of SIU and their athletics. I read all medical programs are transferring to Edwardsville which makes them the de facto main campus. Faced with financial problems already in the athletic department in regards to paying back loans for renovations do you think there is a chance for SIU to drop down to D2 in the future (20 years) if they become the satellite campus? That's what I think could happen although I hope not.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby VUGrad1314 » August 17th, 2018, 8:15 am

That would be such a shame to lose such a historic MVC program.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby siudawgs » August 17th, 2018, 10:23 pm

VUGrad1314 wrote:I was reading the SIU board and I am absolutely shocked by how down their fans seem to be on their team compared to most outside observers. Why the pessimism? Your team looks really good on paper. Can some Saluki fans explain this, because I find it very hard to understand.

Try to come up with a list of Barry Hinson’s biggest wins in his time at SIU. He hasn’t given fans much to be excited about, at least those who understand that flirting with 20 wins against weak schedules without even sniffing an NIT is not what this program has been or should be about. Yes, this year’s team is senior-laden and should contend in the MVC, but the overall recruiting, scheduling, class balance and lowering of expectations under Hinson has been tough to stomach.
That said, I hope this year’s team can give the university and fan base a desperately-needed jolt of positive energy.
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Re: Too early 2018-19 predictions

Postby siudawgs » August 17th, 2018, 10:29 pm

BEARZ77 wrote:
Spike wrote:There is literally nothing trolling about that post. It is a long standing misconception that Missouri State got screwed but that is simply not the case. Their resume was no where near tournament worthy.

Creighton was #41 in the RPI. They went 5-5 against the RPI top 50 in conference. Like Missouri State they played one top 50 team in OOC, excpet they won. Like Missouri State they lost in the 1st round of the Valley tournament. Like Missouri State their OOC schedule outside of that game was not good. Do you think they got screwed too?

No. This is all just revisionist history. They look at the RPI and go "Hinson was screwed" but when you look at the actual resume, you realize that it was awful.


Except that there were three teams ,most notably Air Force, that had even worse resumes and got at large bids that year. The fact MSU played 11 games against top 50 teams regardless of the fact they were mostly Valley teams is significant; it's not supposed to matter who the teams were or where they come from, just the objective ranking they have. How many Valley teams or even other midmajors play 11 games against top 50 teams in a year. There were a number of pundits who ran blind picks for the tournament following that snub,using known criteria, and in each one MSU got picked ahead of a couple other teams that made the field. You're using the same rationale that the committee uses every year to explain why top level MM are snubbed, looking for reasons to keep them out rather than looking at the positives they use to put low hanging P-5 teams in.How many times does a team from the ACC or Big 12 who has a very mediocre resume get in based on they had 3-4 top 50 wins in conference, most often home games. MSU had warts, no doubt, but they had done more than a few other teams that got bids.

That probably wasn't Barry's worst snub however, his very first year following Alford's team that had made the sweet 16 may have been worse. His team finished 2nd in the MVC, made the championship game in the MVC tourney, but played a dreadful game against Creighton and did not get a bid. In retrospect, that team had a
better RPI, better conference record and finish, and better showing in the MVC tournament than Alford's team did. But they didn't have any really outstanding wins and played their worst game in front of everyone in the tourney final. Barry always had a unique timing for losing really critical games. i'm far from a Barry apologist, and like I said , he had a knack for losing critical games. but he had at least two and possibly three teams that coulda/ shoulda got bids based on who else did those years.

We can re-litigate Hinson’s SMS days ad nauseum, but that is ancient history. At Southern, he has gone six years without even sniffing the NIT and has yet to get Southern to an MVC tournament final in a watered-down league. He’s lucky to get a Year 7 in Carbondale.
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