UNI's Budget Tightening Continues

[valleychamp]

Yep, its sad really. All of the UNI topics have really devolved into painfully obvious smear campaigns from DJA on here. False statements, flat-out fabricating quotes, and posting misleading information.

Its his favorite hobby, for whatever reason. That, and tweeting teenage basketball players that he does not know.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Please, tell us all about all the hardships that Creighton and Wichita have had to endure due to UNI's financial cuts from the state.

Relax, remove the emotion and honestly consider the situation a moment.

Creighton and Wichita St. are constantly trying to grow their programs. They always want to be bigger and better. They are willing to spend to make that happen.

UNI, among others, is merely trying to maintain their present level. They can't think bigger because they aren't even sure they can maintain their current situation from year to year (due to the whims of the Iowa legislature). In all fairness, that is not UNI's fault, but it certainly limits long term planning.

There is a fundamental difference in where the programs strive to be. That fundamental difference is driven 100% by finances, which is why I feel financial concerns (or the lack thereof) are ALWAYS relevant.

[iSASO]

Yep, its sad really. All of the UNI topics have really devolved into painfully obvious smear campaigns from DJA on here. False statements, flat-out fabricating quotes, and posting misleading information.

Its his favorite hobby, for whatever reason. That, and tweeting teenage basketball players that he does not know.

Champ, you simply have to acknowledge that DJA is the recognized authority on everyone's athletic programs, period. Once you establish that as your starting point, these conversations are much more fruitful.

[havoc]

Please, tell us all about all the hardships that Creighton and Wichita have had to endure due to UNI's financial cuts from the state.

Relax, remove the emotion and honestly consider the situation a moment.

Creighton and Wichita St. are constantly trying to grow their programs. They always want to be bigger and better. They are willing to spend to make that happen.

UNI, among others, is merely trying to maintain their present level. They can't think bigger because they aren't even sure they can maintain their current situation from year to year (due to the whims of the Iowa legislature). In all fairness, that is not UNI's fault, but it certainly limits long term planning.

There is a fundamental difference in where the programs strive to be. That fundamental difference is driven 100% by finances, which is why I feel financial concerns (or the lack thereof) are ALWAYS relevant.

I think the question that was asked, that I don't see an answer to, is how are Creighton and Wichita State adversely affected by the lower budgets of some of the other schools in the conference? What's the difference between Creighton and Wichita State and Butler, VCU, or Gonzaga?

[valleychamp]

Please, tell us all about all the hardships that Creighton and Wichita have had to endure due to UNI's financial cuts from the state.

Relax, remove the emotion and honestly consider the situation a moment.

Creighton and Wichita St. are constantly trying to grow their programs. They always want to be bigger and better. They are willing to spend to make that happen.

UNI, among others, is merely trying to maintain their present level. They can't think bigger because they aren't even sure they can maintain their current situation from year to year (due to the whims of the Iowa legislature). In all fairness, that is not UNI's fault, but it certainly limits long term planning.

There is a fundamental difference in where the programs strive to be. That fundamental difference is driven 100% by finances, which is why I feel financial concerns (or the lack thereof) are ALWAYS relevant.

Right, and now that you have thoroughly explained how much better Creighton is than everyone else, can you please answer the question which was posed as to how anything that happens UNI has a negative impact on the BlueGods?

[Aargh]

I hesitate to enter this conversation, because I fear it's not about facts so much as being about personalities.

I can't talk about CU because private schools don't have as much information published. WSU is spending about $1 mill a year on buildings and grounds. That represents constant improvement to facilities. UNI spends about $200K a year on facilities. That amount is probably a bare-bones minimum just to maintain what exists. Unfortunately, UNI is ahead of many Valley schools in what they spend on facilities. $100K is a pretty common amount. SIU (with Saluki Way in progress) is spending about $5 or $6 mill a year on facilities.

Aging facilities tend to attract a lower level of recruits. The current environment in D1 athletics seems to be "move forward or get left behind".

Spending less than $500K on a basketball coach tends to lead to regular turnover and taking hiring risks. There are several Valley schools with limited budgets who deserve the pride they have in their success. Coaching turnover, hiring risks, and aging facilities do not tend to lead to ongoing success. SIU made a mistake with Lowery. WSU made a mistake in a coaching hire that led to a decade of mediocrity in the '90's.

WSU had been to the NCAA's 2 of the last 3 years when they hired Mike Cohen and didn't recover for a decade. SIU was the pride of the Valley and a repeat S16 team when they discovered they had made a mistake in hiring Lowery.

Merely maintaining facilities and being exposed to constant coaching turnover eventually leads to signing a lower level of recruits. That lowers the level of competition that your opponents face, which limits their ability to compete for at-large bids.

The Valley used to be the top non-BCS conference. Now the A-10 and the MWC have moved past the Valley.

During the Valley's drop in prominence, MSU and SIU went from significant to insignificant. If UNI has enough success to make up for either of those teams, Jacobsen will get an offer he can't refuse. Then UNI is one risky hire away from joining the Valley teams that are currently a shadow of what they were 5 or 6 years ago.

If competition in the Valley continues to erode, then it will be more difficult for WSU and CU to recruit the talent they need to compete on a national level. There are exceptions. Butler, Gonzaga, and VCU have demonstrated that a team can be nationally significant while playing in a "weaker" conference.

As often as that happens, we may as well discuss WSU's participation in the F4 in the '60's. A ebbing tide lowers all ships.

[Snaggletooth]

I think the question that was asked, that I don't see an answer to, is how are Creighton and Wichita State adversely affected by the lower budgets of some of the other schools in the conference?

Perfect example - Dallas Baptist. They wanted to join the MVC in baseball. There are certain schools in the conference that fought the whole way because they didn't want to incur travel cost of having to go to Dallas every other year. Of course UNI wasn't involved because they already dropped baseball.

[valleychamp]

I hesitate to enter this conversation, because I fear it's not about facts so much as being about personalities.

I can't talk about CU because private schools don't have as much information published. WSU is spending about $1 mill a year on buildings and grounds. That represents constant improvement to facilities. UNI spends about $200K a year on facilities. That amount is probably a bare-bones minimum just to maintain what exists. Unfortunately, UNI is ahead of many Valley schools in what they spend on facilities. $100K is a pretty common amount. SIU (with Saluki Way in progress) is spending about $5 or $6 mill a year on facilities.

Aging facilities tend to attract a lower level of recruits. The current environment in D1 athletics seems to be "move forward or get left behind".

Spending less than $500K on a basketball coach tends to lead to regular turnover and taking hiring risks. There are several Valley schools with limited budgets who deserve the pride they have in their success. Coaching turnover, hiring risks, and aging facilities do not tend to lead to ongoing success. SIU made a mistake with Lowery. WSU made a mistake in a coaching hire that led to a decade of mediocrity in the '90's.

WSU had been to the NCAA's 2 of the last 3 years when they hired Mike Cohen and didn't recover for a decade. SIU was the pride of the Valley and a repeat S16 team when they discovered they had made a mistake in hiring Lowery.

Merely maintaining facilities and being exposed to constant coaching turnover eventually leads to signing a lower level of recruits. That lowers the level of competition that your opponents face, which limits their ability to compete for at-large bids.

The Valley used to be the top non-BCS conference. Now the A-10 and the MWC have moved past the Valley.

During the Valley's drop in prominence, MSU and SIU went from significant to insignificant. If UNI has enough success to make up for either of those teams, Jacobsen will get an offer he can't refuse. Then UNI is one risky hire away from joining the Valley teams that are currently a shadow of what they were 5 or 6 years ago.

If competition in the Valley continues to erode, then it will be more difficult for WSU and CU to recruit the talent they need to compete on a national level. There are exceptions. Butler, Gonzaga, and VCU have demonstrated that a team can be nationally significant while playing in a "weaker" conference.

As often as that happens, we may as well discuss WSU's participation in the F4 in the '60's. A ebbing tide lowers all ships.

I don't know where you got your facility $ numbers, I don't know if they are legitimate, or what exactly they mean quite frankly. And I don't mean that to sound snarky either. If you have a better explaination of those figures, I'd like to hear it. Unless you are building something, why would you need to spend a ton of money "maintaining" what you have? That's just silly.

As that pertains to UNI, they have fantastic facilities, and I would stack them up against almost anyone. Built a new arena 6 years ago, and have built fantastic weight room facilities, locker rooms, and on-campus medical facilities within that same time frame as well. And that goes for all programs at UNI as well, not just MBB. We have continued to upgrade the UNI-dome for football and other sports, and we have just begun a large renovation of the West Gym for our Wrestling program.

As for the coach's pay argument, I don't know how much validity that has quite frankly. Unless you are paying your coach $2 million, he's probably eventually going to move on. Its what coaches do. UNI pays coach Jake a competitive salary that ranks near the top the conference. We are lucky to have a great guy and great coach like Ben Jacobson because he is not a "jump at the first pile of cash" type of guy, but I don't have delusions that we are going to keep him for the rest of his career. He's already had numerous chances to move on and take higher paying jobs. You can pay your coach all you want, but it isn't going to assure stability within your program. Sure, it should still be a competitive and respectable salary. But, having all the money in the world isn't going to assure that you can keep your coach or make the "right" hire when that time comes.

Same goes with your conference strength argument, IMO. As you pointed out, there are a bunch of examples of schools that have had wild success by dominating far inferior competition in their own conferences. I would actually argue that the parity and overall strength of the Valley has hurt us at times. Getting through our conference is freaking tough, and there are rarely any terrible teams. If I had a good team, I'd much rather go on the road and play Delaware, James Madison, Santa Clara, or Wisconsin Green Bay than I would Illinois State, SIU, or MSU. We've had a few teams the last several years that have been NCAA tournament caliber teams, that have been knocked out of the tournament by too many MVC losses.

[havoc]

I think the question that was asked, that I don't see an answer to, is how are Creighton and Wichita State adversely affected by the lower budgets of some of the other schools in the conference?

Perfect example - Dallas Baptist. They wanted to join the MVC in baseball. There are certain schools in the conference that fought the whole way because they didn't want to incur travel cost of having to go to Dallas every other year. Of course UNI wasn't involved because they already dropped baseball.

Care to share which schools didn't want them to join the conference due to travel?

Missouri State, Evansville, and SIU all traveled to Dallas Baptist this year for a weekend series.

[glm38]

There have been good points made on both sides of this. But in the end I don't think it means that much. I'm fairly certain if you look at BCS and non BCs conferences across the country there are pretty wide discrepancies among member schools in the amount of $$ that are spent on sports and b-ball in particular in every single conference.

The question is does that $$ spent translate to more success. It would be interesting to graph $$ spent on b-ball in the Valley (or any conference) and look at how that correlates with success in the win column. I'd be willing to bet it is a factor but not nearly as much as some would suggest.