MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby isumvc1 » March 5th, 2013, 8:44 pm

SDSUFan wrote:I know I'm going to get blasted but here is my take on why you should look at SDSU and NDSU. First I want to start with,.....Why is everone bashing Doug Elgin? From my perspective he has brought your conference a ton of stability. If the MVC is a desirable mid-major conference, don't you have to give Elgin some of that credit?

If Dayton and St. Louis don't end up in the Big East, why do you guys want them so bad? You know as well as I do that they are in the next wave or are waiting for an offer from a sexier conference. They would be 2 year rentals most likely, is that what you are really looking for?

There has been mention of a lot of the big market teams like UW-Milwaukee, Detroit, UIC etc but those teams are afterthoughts in those cities. It's not like Omaha and Wichita where they get all of the press and the love. I also don't see an influx of recruits to the rest of the schools just because a metro team joined the conference.

As for some of the other teams like the Belmonts, Murrays etc I think you are always at risk when you take a team that is an outlier school. There will always be a desire for them to get back closer to their region and they would be a potential flight risk every time expansion or realignment is discussed.

With SDSU and NDSU you would have two regional schools that you are already familiar with. We already come with the sports your conference offers and don't have to add. You also have two schools that won't be joining the conference looking for the next best offer to come along. I've spent some time reading the message boards from the other schools. It's pretty apparent that none of you are comfortable with instability. Almost every single board has a faction that wants to upgrade conferences, go FBS football whatever the case maybe. So my question is why wouldn't you want the stability our 2 schools can offer?

I know that moving to your conference wouldn't be easy. But our 2 schools have always strived for excellance. You can check our history in D2 and look at how we have done since joining D1. We will be down initially, but we won't settle with that. The same way you banged on UNI when they joined the conference, they have more than made themselves respectable because they have a passion to be better. Look across the nation and even across your own conference. Some people are just comfortable with being average. Our schools don't represent the town we are in, they represent the entire state, that is what makes us unique despite the smaller communities we are in and helps drive our passion for success.

I know the travel may be expensive, but hopefully the competition will make up for it. Look at the football conference.....Did anyone believe we would be able to come in and compete? Like I said, we may struggle initially but we will get there.

Whether the opportunity arises and whether we get in our not best of luck to your conference, I hope for your sake Creighton stays put and your conference thrives.


you answered your own question, the presidents of the remaining 9 MVC schools are NOT stupid, they are not going to vote to add schools that will increase athletic travel budgets by hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) ever year. Not gonna happen. Now if the dakota territorial school would agree to foot the bill for flying every olympic sports team from the remaining 9 MVC schools up there every year for all sports, then it's a deal. Wakes keeps bragging about how much oil $$ ND has, use it to pay for all the flights MVC olympic sports teams would be required to make.

Still say only 1 school will be added, and it will be a private institution.
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby uniftw » March 5th, 2013, 8:44 pm

When UNI joined the MVC it was a shell...it wasn't half the conference it is today...even then it took UNI over a decade to get to respectable, and now 20 years to get to our current level...we were also coming off of an NCAA bid and an upset of the #3 seeded Mizzou Tigers.


A team that isn't at the MVC level right now will take at least a decade to get there, if not more, as the conference sits - even sans Creighton.

Why do we want SLU/Dayton? Um...the fact that you have to ask that, and not have a real guess, shows a lack of knowledge of the national perspective when it comes to CBB.

Is there a risk taking an outlier school? Sure...you do realize how much of an outlier SDSU is, if the conference no longer has Creighton....especially NDSU. If ISUb went the same number of miles east as it is to Fargo they are miles INTO THE ATLANTIC OCEAN. To the south MSU/WSU are basically in Mexio, to the west we are past Denver, CO.

download/file.php?id=110


A small piece of a huge market is better than the entire SDSU/Sioux Falls market...

download/file.php?id=115



The Dakota schools are about as attractive to the MVC as Western Illinois is to the Big 10
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby SDSUFan » March 5th, 2013, 8:57 pm

uniftw wrote:Why do we want SLU/Dayton? Um...the fact that you have to ask that, and not have a real guess, shows a lack of knowledge of the national perspective when it comes to CBB.


I get why you want them, they would instantly become the top 2 teams in the conference. But are they really worth it for a 2 year rental so you have to start the replacement process all over again?
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby siudawgs » March 5th, 2013, 9:27 pm

I'm assuming the Dayton/SLU replacement notion will prove unrealistic.
Assuming that's the case, from an SIU and MVC fan's standpoint, Murray State and Valparaiso hold the most appeal of the schools being thrown around. Guess you can throw Belmont in that mix as well.
The only way I could really live with Oral Roberts is if the move came with assurances that it would keep Wichita in the fold.
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby uniftw » March 5th, 2013, 10:04 pm

SDSUFan wrote:
uniftw wrote:Why do we want SLU/Dayton? Um...the fact that you have to ask that, and not have a real guess, shows a lack of knowledge of the national perspective when it comes to CBB.


I get why you want them, they would instantly become the top 2 teams in the conference. But are they really worth it for a 2 year rental so you have to start the replacement process all over again?

You really think they'd be the top 2 teams in the league, just like that?

This year Dayton would be 5th, and yes SLU would be first, in RPI.

Last year SLU would have been 3rd and Dayton 4th

10-11 - Dayton 3rd SLU 7th

09-10 - Dayton 3rd and SLU 5th

08-09 - Dayton 1st SLU 5th


They would be a top half team, but not the best 2.

Do you know anything about the MVC?
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby Dean Wormer » March 5th, 2013, 10:27 pm

SDSUFan wrote:As for some of the other teams like the Belmonts, Murrays etc I think you are always at risk when you take a team that is an outlier school. There will always be a desire for them to get back closer to their region and they would be a potential flight risk every time expansion or realignment is discussed.

With SDSU and NDSU you would have two regional schools that you are already familiar with.



I'm not going to slam your post. I understand you're making points to get the Dakota schools in. I agree with much of what you say, especially in regards to the Loyola's and Detroit's and lack of interest in those cities. I do have to point out that you're missing the mark when you claim the Murray's and Belmont's are outliers and the Dakota's are regional. Belmont and Murray are both within a couple of hours of both Evansville and SIU, and easy drives from the other eastern schools in Illinois and Indiana.
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby Fargobison » March 5th, 2013, 10:49 pm

isumvc1 wrote:
you answered your own question, the presidents of the remaining 9 MVC schools are NOT stupid, they are not going to vote to add schools that will increase athletic travel budgets by hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) ever year. Not gonna happen. Now if the dakota territorial school would agree to foot the bill for flying every olympic sports team from the remaining 9 MVC schools up there every year for all sports, then it's a deal. Wakes keeps bragging about how much oil $$ ND has, use it to pay for all the flights MVC olympic sports teams would be required to make.

Still say only 1 school will be added, and it will be a private institution.


For one you greatly overestimating the travel costs. The only sports that would require yearly trips are MBB, WBB and VB....softball, baseball and women's soccer are just every other year. The other sports have meets(Golf, Track, swimming, X-Country) and would never require going to the Dakota's unless either school hosted the conference title meet. I'm not sure if NDSU would do a subsidy for travel, considering the school would be the one that have to do all the traveling, it would be well worth it of course.

Plus I guess if you add both schools could make one trip to the Dakota and gets games vs both schools in MBB, WBB and VB. I guess I'm just saying there are ways the cost issue can be worked around. Your point about adding one school and that being a private school is probably on target though. NDSU/SDSU work best as a pair for travel plus you add a great rivalry, the two schools have played each other for over a 100 years. One thing that I'm tired of seeing with conference realignment is good rivalries going away.

As for the UNI fan talking about markets. With NDSU and SDSU you are adding states, not markets. Sure they are small states but that is one of the unique things both schools offer.

I do agree with your point about the MVC going to 10 and likely adding a private school. Even though I think NDSU and SDSU can offer more in the long run, both schools have a ton of untapped potential.
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby Western4Life » March 6th, 2013, 12:37 am

Private; ORU, Belmont, Valpo, Detroit, Loyola (DU not included, they won't add the sports required)

ORU; Baseball, NCAA appearances, Tulsa, Travel
Belmont; Nashville, NCAA recent successes, 5k seat Facility though built in 2003

Public; Murray St., UW-M, NDSU, SDSU

Murray St; 15 NCAA appearances, Travel, Support, 8.5K Facility

I honestly hope to see the MVC add one school and maintain what they have built. That would simplify things for the other regional schools but it is always a difficult decision. It becomes too hard to share revenue with too many parties. If it is a three team addition I would love to see the OVC lose the teams rather than the Summit. If the MVFC needed to add Murray St for example then the SL could add Univ of North Dakota (which would help numbers and travel). It isn't the Centenary and Southern Utah days anymore for the SL so I want to see it continue to grow. The MVC has had time to grow and look how well that has turned out. Hard to argue with the RPI jump and rivalries are finally able to develop. I'd hate to go through that again in a new conference.
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby Heinro » March 6th, 2013, 1:27 am

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Last edited by Heinro on March 6th, 2013, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thoughts and prayers to WSU finding a new conference.
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Re: MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

Postby Heinro » March 6th, 2013, 1:34 am

Adding Dayton and StL would be nice but only a temporary fix. Even though I'm still a proponent of 9, if we do expand I think the best thing would be to add ORU, Belmont, and Murray St. I'd really like to get away from the 18 game conference schedule and go to a 16 team conference schedule.
Thoughts and prayers to WSU finding a new conference.
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