Official 2013-14 MVCfans.com Prediction - 8th Place

[GoRamblers]

Could say something very similar to this about Missouri State.

Is that so? Yeah, MSU really couldn't keep up in the MCC. That's why the Bears were earning AT-LARGE BIDS to the Dance under Charlie Spoonhour back when the MCC did not have an automatic bid to the NCAAs. What an ignorant statement.

Loyola hasn't come close to competing in the Horizon since the 80s. That being said, I think adding Loyola was a smart move for long-term purposes. But they weren't added because they were successful in the Horizon. I know that because they weren't successful there.

The Horizon didn't exist until 1994.

I believe he is referring to the predecessor...the Midwestern Collegiate Conference.

[Rambler63]

The Midwestern Collegiate Conference was re-branded the Horizon League in 2001-02. The MCC was created as the Midwestern City Conference in 1979-80. The MCC had the following teams as members at one time or another from 1979-1994: Marquette, St. Louis, Butler, Xavier, Duquesne, Oral Roberts, Dayton, LaSalle, Detroit, Evansville, and Northern Illinois. Notre Dame was also a member for all league sports except basketball.

From 1982-1990, Missouri State was in the Mid-Continent Conference (now the Summit League). Missouri State had five straight 20-win seasons under Charlie Spoonhour before they joined the MVC in 1990-91. Their first three years in the MVC, Missouri State was 22-11 (11-5), 22-8 (13-5), and 20-11 (11-7).

One of the reasons the Midwestern Collegiate Conference became the Horizon was to avoid confusion with the Mid-Con, which was also sometimes called MCC.

[rlh04d]

Could say something very similar to this about Missouri State.

I'm really trying to understand what you are saying. Is this some Mid-Continent Conference reference from when we joined the Valley that I am somehow missing? Thanks in advance.

For once I agree with Casey.

I generally have a lot of respect for your posts rlh but this one doesn't make sense to me? We've had a few bad years (including last year) but overall the Bears have competed pretty well in the Valley since joining. Definitely top half and probably a little higher than that.

I can make a pretty good argument that Missouri State was the least competitive team in the Valley last year. Yet most MoSt fans seem to be very confident about your ability to be competitive next year.

Wasn't making any reference to previous conferences. Just think it's odd to make the argument that Loyola couldn't possibly be competitive in the Valley this year because of not being competitive in the Horizon last year. As I said, I could say something very similar about MoSt: if MoSt couldn't compete in the Valley last year, why can they compete in the Valley this year?

Just think it's weird for a fan of MoSt, of all teams, to judge a team so heavily on last season. Loyola's strengths are about the same as MoSt -- namely that you both had incredibly young teams last year and lost key players due to injury. So why make the argument that MoSt will improve significantly this year and Loyola won't?

I'm not saying they're the same. "Not competitive" in the Valley is obviously different than in the Horizon. But I also don't think anyone is making the argument that Loyola will finish ahead of MoSt. Just think dismissing a team based on the poor performance of a young team hurt by injuries isn't something I'd expect from MoSt fans this season.

Guess I should have made my point more clear in my post This is why I'm usually long-winded.

[rlh04d]

Could say something very similar to this about Missouri State.

Is that so? Yeah, MSU really couldn't keep up in the MCC. That's why the Bears were earning AT-LARGE BIDS to the Dance under Charlie Spoonhour back when the MCC did not have an automatic bid to the NCAAs. What an ignorant statement.

I guess if I was actually making that statement, it would be ignorant. Good thing that wasn't my point

Amazing what you can read into one sentence.

[glm38]

I can make a pretty good argument that Missouri State was the least competitive team in the Valley last year. Yet most MoSt fans seem to be very confident about your ability to be competitive next year.

Wasn't making any reference to previous conferences. Just think it's odd to make the argument that Loyola couldn't possibly be competitive in the Valley this year because of not being competitive in the Horizon last year. As I said, I could say something very similar about MoSt: if MoSt couldn't compete in the Valley last year, why can they compete in the Valley this year?

Just think it's weird for a fan of MoSt, of all teams, to judge a team so heavily on last season. Loyola's strengths are about the same as MoSt -- namely that you both had incredibly young teams last year and lost key players due to injury. So why make the argument that MoSt will improve significantly this year and Loyola won't?

I'm not saying they're the same. "Not competitive" in the Valley is obviously different than in the Horizon. But I also don't think anyone is making the argument that Loyola will finish ahead of MoSt. Just think dismissing a team based on the poor performance of a young team hurt by injuries isn't something I'd expect from MoSt fans this season.

Guess I should have made my point more clear in my post This is why I'm usually long-winded.

I see what you meant now and I agree with you. That's why IMO Loyola will be better than some are predicting. My apologies.

[Bluejay09Bear06]

I guess if I was actually making that statement, it would be ignorant. Good thing that wasn't my point .

How could that not be your point? The last time MSU switched conferences was from the Mid-Con to the Valley. The point you were responding to was that Loyola performed poorly in an easier conference last year. Therefore, even if Loyola is improved this year, the significant upgrade in competition in a higher-quality conference likely makes it a wash.

[MVCfans]

I think we can go ahead and close the polls here: The official MVCfans.com prediction for 8th place during the 2013-14 men's Missouri Valley Conference basketball season - Illinois State Redbirds.

The voting for 7th place will begin shortly.

[Wufan]

I guess if I was actually making that statement, it would be ignorant. Good thing that wasn't my point .

How could that not be your point? The last time MSU switched conferences was from the Mid-Con to the Valley. The point you were responding to was that Loyola performed poorly in an easier conference last year. Therefore, even if Loyola is improved this year, the significant upgrade in competition in a higher-quality conference likely makes it a wash.

I'm going to help you out. Here's EXACTLY what was said:

Why are you inclined to say that other than you are a fan? The ramblers could t compete in the horizon why will they compete in the valley.

Could say something very similar to this about Missouri State.

Here is what was implied:

Why are you inclined to say that other than you are a fan? The BEARS could t compete in the VALLEY LAST YEAR why will they compete in the valley THIS YEAR.

[rlh04d]

How could that not be your point? The last time MSU switched conferences was from the Mid-Con to the Valley. The point you were responding to was that Loyola performed poorly in an easier conference last year. Therefore, even if Loyola is improved this year, the significant upgrade in competition in a higher-quality conference likely makes it a wash.

Sorry. I assumed you'd read my first post before my reply to you.

You should read that one or Wu's post. Thanks Wu

[Bluejay09Bear06]

Is this for real? How are you people arguing about this? The original point was that Loyola sucked in a lesser league last year. The response was that MSU sucked in the Valley last year. But because MSU is not switching to a better conference (like Loyola is) there is nothing useful to draw by comparing either team's performance last year with respect to how they will compete in the Valley this year. MSU's performance in the Valley last year is relevant. Loyola's in the Horizon isn't.

"The Ramblers couldn't compete in the Horizon why will they compete in the Valley?" Fair question.

"Could say something very similar to this about Missouri State." I get that you weren't saying MSU couldn't compete when they switched from the Mid-Con to the Valley (despite the fact that a strict reading of your post carries this message). But even your clarified message makes no sense, as I laid out above. You actually can't say the same thing about MSU because they are not competing in a different conference this year.