Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Who will be named 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Poll ended at October 24th, 2013, 4:42 pm

Auston Barnes - Bradley
1
2%
Darius Carter - Wichita State
11
18%
Chris Caird - Drake
2
3%
Kadeem Coleby - Wichita State
4
7%
Marcus Fillyaw - SIU
2
3%
Zach Lofton - Illinois State
16
26%
Ron Mvouika - Missouri State
12
20%
Wes Washpun - UNI
12
20%
other - (write in name)
1
2%
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby Cdizzle » October 23rd, 2013, 3:34 pm

BCPanther wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:
Khan4Cats wrote:UNI is the weakest and least athletic team in the conference. Since that is what constitutes great, competitive basketball teams it is no wonder then, that we always find ourselves where we do regularly in the conference standings.


5th?


Last 5 Years---
1st
1st
4th
4th
3rd

So, no. Not 5th.


A little cherry-pickish, and not altogether accurate, but I'm not here to start a fight. I think some people went a little overboard on the offence-o-meter regarding athleticism. So it goes.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby BCPanther » October 23rd, 2013, 3:39 pm

Just saying that our 'unathletic' team has fared pretty well in this league for the last decade. There are 8 other schools that would trade places with us at the drop of a hat...
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby glm38 » October 23rd, 2013, 3:56 pm

I'm not sure the comments about the athleticism offended anyone? But it's entirely inaccurate to state that based on a player's superior athletic abilities that other players with less of that attribute "can't compete". In fact that is proven false all the time.

If that were true Orupke would have dominated the MVC.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby Cdizzle » October 23rd, 2013, 4:00 pm

BCPanther wrote:Just saying that our 'unathletic' team has fared pretty well in this league for the last decade. There are 8 other schools that would trade places with us at the drop of a hat...


There are probably more than 8. I do not know how many of them are in this league.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby uniftw » October 23rd, 2013, 4:01 pm

Cdizzle wrote:A little cherry-pickish, and not altogether accurate, but I'm not here to start a fight. I think some people went a little overboard on the offence-o-meter regarding athleticism. So it goes.
Cherry pick this s***...


The last time UNI played in the PIG? 2002-2003 season. Team with a longer streak of avoiding the PIG? There isn't one.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby Cdizzle » October 23rd, 2013, 4:04 pm

So much unfounded anger. The season probably needs to start soon.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby uniftw » October 23rd, 2013, 4:14 pm

glm38 wrote:I'm not sure the comments about the athleticism offended anyone? But it's entirely inaccurate to state that based on a player's superior athletic abilities that other players with less of that attribute "can't compete". In fact that is proven false all the time.

If that were true Orupke would have dominated the MVC.

Outside of the fact that UNI probably has more white players than other team team the last 10-15 years, along with Drake and Creighton, I'm curious as to why UNI is always considered so unathletic?

Is it because the players are mostly white, and not black?
Is it because instead of dunking the ball UNI has utilized the lay up?
Is it because they don't do 360 spin moves?
Is it because they don't "look fancy" when they play?
Is it because Lucas O'Rear had mutton chops and a mullet?


If I had to guess, it's because the team isn't black like MSU, Bradley, ISUx2, etc... Fact is that black players are almost always considered more athletic, whether they are or aren't in reality. Teddy Bridgewater, Geno Smith, Bryan Leftwhich, etc... are all far from a running QBs but I'd bet you'd tell me every single one of them in their prime was more athletic than Christian Ponder, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Brett Farve, etc...

The fact is UNI isn't the fastest or highest jumping team in the conference....but I'd promise you that they aren't the slowest and lowest jumping team in the conference.



So, other than "I don't feel they are athletic because I just don't" why is UNI always unathletic?




Heck, let's go a step further - what makes athleticism?

Who is more athletic and why: Kevin Love or Zach Randolf...Steve Nash or Mario Chalmers?
Who would you rather have and why: Kevin Love or Zach Randolf...Steve Nash or Mario Chalmers?
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby Cdizzle » October 23rd, 2013, 4:23 pm

I once saw a UNI player trip over the 3-point line.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby jigga » October 23rd, 2013, 5:24 pm

I gotta go with my man Lofton for NOY.

Not because I doubt the talent of everybody else.

It's simply because I know he has the talent to tear this conference to shreds individually.
And it's seems he will have the opportunity to play big minutes and be a focal point of the offense.

This guy is an great scorer and is capable of doing amazing things with the ball in his hands.
Looking forward to seeing how him and the RedBirds fair this year.
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Re: Who will be named the 2013-14 MVC Newcomer of the Year?

Postby CBB_Fan » October 23rd, 2013, 5:35 pm

uniftw wrote:Heck, let's go a step further - what makes athleticism?


It is true that athleticism in sports is often perceived in racial terms by fans. However, this stereotype does have legitimate reasoning behind it.

Scientifically speaking, explosive power is generally dependent on muscle composition. People with more fast-twitch muscles are more explosive than those that mostly have slow-twitch muscles (which have other advantages). Black people as a whole have higher percentages of fast-twitch muscles than people of other races (even Kenyans, though their fast-twitch muscles can hold much more oxygen than most other people's).

More generally speaking, we tend to express athleticism in terms of quick movements with high amounts of imparted force. Looking at the Olympics, Caucasian athletes (more specifically Scandinavian) dominate in events that require maximum force, but these aren't quick movements that can be used in most ball sports.

That said, if you look at the NFL white athletes tend to predominate in positions that require maximum pushing force, while black athletes are more common in positions that require quick (but still high-power) movements.

Quick and precise movements that aren't really high power aren't limited as much by genetics. Baseball is a sport that requires precision more than maximum force or speed (it is useful to run quickly or hit homers, but hitting the ball at all is the most important thing). As expected, baseball's ethnicity is the closest to America's population as a whole.

The basic attributes of basketball tend to emphasize the type of quick, explosive movements that utilize fast-twitch muscle fiber. As the court is relatively small, and it is very hard to score unless the player is close to the basket or unguarded, the ability to gain space is key. That ability makes explosiveness crucial on both offense and defense, even though actually scoring is a precise-type movement that isn't limited to any ethnicity.

It should be noted that some research has found that fast-twitch muscle fiber production is best linked to temperature, rather than just pure racial groups. Across the world, people born around the same latitudes and in the same basic temperature range tend to have similar levels of fast-twitch muscle and other factors that emphasize what we generally call athleticism. The Eskimos, unfortunately won't be winning any Olympic sprinting medals any time soon.

So, to summarize:

Athleticism generally is defined as the ability to exert high levels of force in very short amounts of time. In sports like basketball, the main desire for athleticism is to create space, rather than to push or pull an outside object.

Other body types are better suited to other endeavors, such as the Caucasian dominance in Olympic throwing events or the higher numbers of white people playing center in the NFL. There is also endurance involved, but Kenyans (and only a small portion of Kenyans at that) tend to dominate endurance events in ways that seem to break the rules.

Finally, you have precision. Precision seems to be a much more individual metric than lifting strength or max vertical. Some would say white people have a slight edge, but really race is not a factor when shooting a basketball, throwing a football, or hitting a baseball.

The real question though is why white athletes in basketball are always seen as unathletic, even when combine numbers disprove that or they are dominant in other factors (Love's shooting for instance). This is less based on reality and more based on culture. For one, most white athletes aren't focused in on improved their basketball skills, they are either football players or baseball players, so people grow into the idea that black athletes are naturally better at basketball because it is so much rarer to see a dominant white athlete in the sport.

Similarly, black athletes are considered worse QBs not because they don't have the genetics for the position, but because most black kids grow up playing basketball (or at least are placed into other positions early and never develop QB skills).

Long ramble over, it is mostly cultural. We've grown into the idea that black people are athletes and white people play for other reasons, because most of the young players with any level of talent are black. By the time we thin down to the best players in the world, the explosive edge mostly goes away yet we still remember that a lot of the white players at the lower levels were slow. We forget that many, many black athletes were also slow because there are enough black athletes in the sport to fill in the blanks with dominant performances.
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