Shockers Down !

[Wufan]

Obviously Shocks miss Early and a true defensive presence inside. Peaked against Utah. Great two year run. MVC compass pointing NNE.

If UNI wins the conference this year, and they very well could, it won't be because this is the end of a good run, it will be because the Panthers are damn good! They will be media darlings if they pull it off with any style.

[Championz]

Obviously Shocks miss Early and a true defensive presence inside. Peaked against Utah. Great two year run. MVC compass pointing NNE.

2 years? You have short term memory issues? WSU has been pretty good for a bit longer than 2 years.

Also, are you suggesting UNI is going to sustain their effort after this year? Are their backups or recruiting class Top 20 good?

[uniftw]

Obviously Shocks miss Early and a true defensive presence inside. Peaked against Utah. Great two year run. MVC compass pointing NNE.

If UNI wins the conference this year, and they very well could, it won't be because this is the end of a good run, it will be because the Panthers are damn good!

I'll go with this.

WSU is still a very good team, just going through some pretty obvious growing pains.

The loss of Cle hurts way more than anyone expected, I think. FVV and Baker are very good but are just missing that killer mentality that Cle had. I think they'll get there, but Cle was special.

FVV's per game numbers are about the same as last season (PPG up .1,, rebounds are up .4, APG down .1, SPG up .3, TO and min up .1) but shooting is WAY down. I know "rushing" shots was mentioned earlier and that may be the case for him.

Last season FVV shot 48.4 from the floor, 41.8 from 3 and 83.0 from the line. This year it's 37.0 from the floor, 30.2 from 3 and 75.0 from the line.

So to keep scoring numbers flat he has gone from 7.6 SPP to 9.93 SPG.

2013/2014
Shots - 7.6/9.9
Makes - 3.7/3.6
3pt att - 3.1/3.6
3pt make - 1.1/1.1
FT att - 3.8/4.4
FT make - 3.1/3.2

Twice this season has FVV shot the ball 15 or more times and twice has he shot double digit threes...both were WSU losses. In those games he had a combined 3 FT attempts.

VV needs to learn to be "the man" on the court for the full game and not have a guy like Cle to bail him out during a rough stretch. He'll get there, that I have no doubt. He just needs the rest of the team to help him elevate his game.

It will happen by the end of the season.

[uniftw]

Also, are you suggesting UNI is going to sustain their effort after this year? Are their backups or recruiting class Top 20 good?

We don't know if UNI will.
Are we sure WSU isn't "coming back to earth"?

We do know UNI's back ups are pretty damn good. Outscored the starters 43-29 in the SDSU game/

Don't know how it will continue but it's not like UNI's reserves are unknown. Washpun, Jesperson Morgan and Buss are all proven. The only question is how the freshman continue to progress.

............MPG FG% 3PT % FT% RPG PPG
Washpun....25 0.60 0.73 0.69 3 12
Jesperson...24 0.46 0.41 0.86 1 8
Buss.........15 0.50 0.41 0.78 2 6
Lohaus,,,,,,15 0.41 0.38 0.84 2 5
Morgan......19 0.40 0.26 0.54 2 4
Koch......... 6 0.71 N/A 0.70 1 3

[2livewu]

WSU isn't going to be a 1 seed this year.

Apparently in the Valley dropping from a 1 seed is cause to kick dirt on their grave. The expectations of some (including Shocker fans) is unreal. In part, a product of their success (winningest team in college basketball over the last 5 seasons) but still, unreal.

I like how some are already crowning UNI and discussing future years. How about enjoy this year? UNI is going to miss Tuttle something fierce. Everyone always likes the backups. I remember when UNI beat KU and how good their bench was and how it was going to continue for the foreseeable future.

Turns out those guys were good role players.

UNI continues to do what they have done since Ben took over. Play as a team, play hard and play smart and shoot the ball well. This year they are loaded with experience and have more depth and they are seeing the positive results so far. The success they've had so far is likely to morph into future success as well. Winning begets winning. Teams that have more confidence are dangerous, just like teams that can't find a way seem to not be able to stem the tide sometimes.

Still think the jury is out on UNI. I think UNI is a solid top 50 team, and WSU a solid top 35 team. Both have question marks. Both are capable of beating a lot of teams (not named Kentucky) on a given night. UNI looked terrible against a top 125 team in Iowa (who was bloody awful in that game) in the first half.

Unless something odd happens (injuries etc) WSU is still separated from the rest of the Valley. They certainly won't go undefeated but they'll be favored in every game with the possible exception of at UNI. I'm glad the league is improving, it needs to, but discussing a change at the top is a bit premature I think at this point.

Both UNI and WSU better win a lot in conference. 13-5 for UNI with no wins against WSU and a semi-final loss in St Louis would make me very nervous as a Panther fan. WSU probably has a 2 game cushion for a top 4 seed, the goal at the start of the year. 3 at the most. Anything more and it's bye bye to a decent location.

[Championz]

I wasn't taking a shot at UNI. I genuinely didn't know what they had coming back after this year. I'm surprised to see those numbers off the bench. That's pretty solid. What year is Washpun?

As to "WSU coming back down to earth", if you mean that WSU isn't gonna be a No.1 seed or go undefeated in the Valley, then you're probably correct. It's all relative. Comparing WSU now to WSU last year isn't fair. If by falling still equates to a #8 RPI, #7 SOS, Top 16 national ranking, etc., then I'll take it. It's not like WSU is getting blown out by bad teams.

[uniftw]

WSU isn't going to be a 1 seed this year.

Apparently in the Valley dropping from a 1 seed is cause to kick dirt on their grave. The expectations of some (including Shocker fans) is unreal. In part, a product of their success (winningest team in college basketball over the last 5 seasons) but still, unreal.

I like how some are already crowning UNI and discussing future years. How about enjoy this year? UNI is going to miss Tuttle something fierce. Everyone always likes the backups. I remember when UNI beat KU and how good their bench was and how it was going to continue for the foreseeable future.

Turns out those guys were good role players.
.

There was a lot of extenuating circumstances that lead issues the following couple seasons.

Remember how a guy named Doug McDermott was signed to UNI to be a freshman in 2010/2011 and that UNI didn't have another big set to come in with him because there would have been Lucas O'Rear, Doug McDermott, Jake Koch, and Austin Pehl to use the post minutes in 2010-2011? Doug wouldn't have been a 30ppg scorer like he was a Creighton but he would have made a HUGE difference at UNI. However, he went with daddy.

That year saw UNI 1 game out of first place, on an 8 game winning streak (and 9 of 10) and 18-6 overall on Feb 2nd after beating Illinois State. The catch? Lucas O'Rear broke his ankle leaving Austin Pehl and a sophomore Jake Koch to be the only post players on the team. UNI then lost 8 of their last 10 to end the season.

Well, UNI didn't sign any other post players wit Doug and Lucas and Pehl graduated after that 2010/2011 leaving only Jake Koch and Seth Tuttle for 2011/2012 and 2012/2013. We tried to bring a prep school kid in, but he couldn't hack it (though is doing well at EIU right now). Finally got some added post size/depth again. That cluster of a situation set UNI back 2 or 3 years in recruiting and developing. It also would have allowed Tuttle to redshirt...and be a JR right now.

Oh well...such is life...and college basketball.

Time marches on.

[uniftw]

I wasn't taking a shot at UNI. I genuinely didn't know what they had coming back after this year. I'm surprised to see those numbers off the bench. That's pretty solid. What year is Washpun?

As to "WSU coming back down to earth", if you mean that WSU isn't gonna be a No.1 seed or go undefeated in the Valley, then you're probably correct. It's all relative. Comparing WSU now to WSU last year isn't fair. If by falling still equates to a #8 RPI, #7 SOS, Top 16 national ranking, etc., then I'll take it. It's not like WSU is getting blown out by bad teams.

Seniors this year are Tuttle, Singleton, Mitchell, Max Martino and Buss...though no word on if he'll try for a medical yet.

Juniors are Washpun, Jesperson and Bohannon.
Jeremy Morgan is a sophomore (so is Ted Freidman but he is redshirting this year).
rFr are Klint Carlson Bennett Koch and Robert Knaar
Wyatt Lohaus is a true freshman.

Some pretty nice players for next year coming in too. LIkely not a top 25 team but a top 2 or 3 Valley team yet again.

[unipanther99]

Yeah, after the run in 2010, UNI fans knew we would be missing our seniors very much but were still optimistic about the future with Doug McDermott coming in (who most Valleytalk posters dismissed at the time). If Ben were to stay for another decade or so, I see us as being an every other year sort of team. Solid, potential top 25, tourney-lock sort of team one year... And the next year on the cusp, more likely NIT, but capable of making a run in St. Louis. Once or twice in that decade a sweet-sixteen or deeper run, and once or twice in that decade a real rebuilding year, potentially even a losing season (hasn't happened since 2002-03).

[Wufan]

Yeah, after the run in 2010, UNI fans knew we would be missing our seniors very much but were still optimistic about the future with Doug McDermott coming in (who most Valleytalk posters dismissed at the time). If Ben were to stay for another decade or so, I see us as being an every other year sort of team. Solid, potential top 25, tourney-lock sort of team one year... And the next year on the cusp, more likely NIT, but capable of making a run in St. Louis. Once or twice in that decade a sweet-sixteen or deeper run, and once or twice in that decade a real rebuilding year, potentially even a losing season (hasn't happened since 2002-03).

This is also my expectation of the Panthers.