Ohio Valley Discussion

[RacerJoeD]

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What he said.

Ill add that one of the biggest issues for Murray State basketball is the constant dismissal of top 25 teams as "just the best team in a low major conference".

TL;DR
Seeding is EVERYTHING

In 2015, Murray State had a lottery pick, were ranked in the AP and Coaches to 25, had won 25 games in a row, but lost in the OVC championship to Belmont on a desperation banked-in 3 at the death. Come time for NCAA selection, we knew a bad start to the season (we still went 3-0 vs the MVC that year, FYI) had probably hurt our chances for an at large. But as regular season champions, with a damn good team, we expected a protected seed in the NIT. Instead, a top 25 team was given a 3 seed in the NIT. That meant one home game instead of two or three. Does that matter?

Murray St destroyed UTEP at home 81-66, then had to go to Tulsa, where the Racers won 83-62. Immediately after that game, the team then had to go on the road to Norfolk to play Old Dominion. I was lucky enough to be at all of those games, and I understood why the team looked so flat in the first half. They fought back in a tough road environment and lost on a 3/4 court heave and missed out on going to The Garden.

Now Im not saying that if Murray had played at home all three games, the outcome would have been different, but I would like to have seen it. In reality, the margin between good and great is small, and if you aren't pushing to find a way to improve your situation every day, you are falling behind. We founded the OVC in 1948. We aren't pushing to leave just to leave. The next step in our progress as a program is to go someplace where our great teams are treated as such.

One last point. This is a "down-year" for the MVC. Not because there aren't good teams, but because there isn't a clear favorite, and the regular season champ might end up with 3 or 4 conference losses. That said, in your down year, the MVC is 11 spots higher than the OVC in conference rankings. We know we are a big fish, regardless of pond size, we just want people to see the big fish and not the small pond.

[VUGrad1314]

Tourney credits, tv exposure, peer universities, and better opportunities in March.

3 11-seeds have made the Final 4 in 12 years while no 12+ seed ever has. Murray specifically has had 2 runs halted early giving the national champion and national runnerup its closest game. Murray's in the S16/E8/Final 4 those two years if not handcuffed with 13/14 seeds. Those are viewed by missed opportunities by the school's power brokers.

Considering you need a minimum Sweet 16 run to feel tangible effects schoolwide (UMBC excepted), it's a no brainer for college administrators seeking to raise their school's profile. That's why you saw Murray's President campaigning so publicly on social media to join the MVC.

More important than hoops, Murray's President & BOR aren't sitting there saying "We want to be Tennessee-Martin". They're sitting there asking how they can be Illinois State or Missouri State. Those are the schools Murray aspires to be, much like Wichita aspires to be Houston or Cincinnati.

100% right. I think Valpo made the jump for a lot of the same reasons.

In all honesty I don't understand why Murray State wants in the MVC so bad. It's added travel and there's no guarantee we will ever be a 2 bid league again. Besides that Murray State has home court advantage in Evansville and if they finish in the top 2, they only have to win 2 games to make the NCAA tournament. Then their football program would probably struggle in the MVFC. In all seriousness, if Murray St is smart they'll stay where they are at. I just feel like there are more disadvantages for them joining than advantages. Maybe someone can enlighten me a little more.

Some of these same arguments applied to Valpo as well. All that winning was great but this was the next necessary step to raise our university's profile. We're playing better teams than ever before, we're with more private (and in-state) schools than ever before, we're on TV more than ever before, and we're recruiting as well as we ever have. Plus, we know that if we have another year like 15-16 , our conference will now help us more than it hurts us increasing our chances of an at-large bid even if it's just a small incremental increase. Our fanbase is very happy.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Yeah you can pretty much copy/paste that post for Valpo and change the last paragraph to:

Valparaiso's President & BOR aren't sitting there saying "We want to be Youngstown State". They're sitting there asking how they can be Loyola or Bradley.

[Dean Wormer]

More important than hoops, Murray's President & BOR aren't sitting there saying "We want to be Tennessee-Martin". They're sitting there asking how they can be Illinois State

They can start by recruiting the Eddyville Pen.

Joking aside, this brings up some thoughts to ponder. Alluding back to what mvfcfan posted earlier today questioning why Murray wouldn't want to stay put. Good points indeed. Taking it further to this comment, I don't see why they would aspire to be Illinois State. This isn't meant to be an attack on Illinois State, but consider the following:

Illinois State hasn't been to the NCAA or won a conference championship in over 20 years. How many times has Murray done that in that span? What about the current state of the programs? I doubt anyone would trade McMahon for Muller and certainly not Ja Morant for Yarbrough. Facilities are probably a push. Seriously, if you were sent back to 1998, and had any fan loyalties or alumni ties erased, and were given the choice to be an Illinois State fan or Murray fan, I think everyone of us would pick Murray. Their fans have simply had a lot more to cheer about the last 20 years.

Other than better competition, I too am starting to wonder if we really benefit them as much as we like to think we do. This isn't a Valpo comparison. They were in a conference full of urban commuter schools with no institutional similarities. A private leaving the Horizon for us is a no brainer. A public, that has been in the same conference for over 70 years with similar schools is a little bigger decision.

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I am just saying they don't need to aspire to be any of us, they already are.

[smidge34]

Going undefeated the months of December, January and February then losing on last second heave in the conference tournament championship, being left out of NCAA Tournament for 3 teams who finished 9-11 in their conferences then as Joe alluded to, a 3 seed road team in NIT was last straw for us. No way a top 25 MVC team undefeated for 3 months and losing last second on a 35 foot bomb in Arch Madness championship gets left out. No way. The OVC overall is a low major nightmare with HALF its programs ranked among the bottom 65 teams according to the NCAA’s NET rankings. Lol it’s a no brainer really.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

More important than hoops, Murray's President & BOR aren't sitting there saying "We want to be Tennessee-Martin". They're sitting there asking how they can be Illinois State

Taking it further to this comment, I don't see why they would aspire to be Illinois State. This isn't meant to be an attack on Illinois State, but consider the following:

Talking institutionally from the President/BOR perspective. Murray State aspires to be a Missouri State or Illinois State, Valparaiso aspires to be a Loyola or Bradley, Wichita aspires to be a Memphis or Cincinnati, etc. It was meant to support the "like-minded peers" point. Those are the schools each wants to be associated with.

Athletically (basketball) we all know where Murray stands. Murray doesn't have to aspire to be anyone on the court. It's a matter of the school positioning itself off the court with the right fit for exposure/opportunity to capitalize off its brand and success. It's about student recruiting.

(Used Missouri State and Illinois State as examples because they're growing non-flagship public schools in states bordering Kentucky. Murray wants the success similar profile schools have had generating enrollment, thus seeking association with those schools.)

But beyond institutional fits, it also circles back to positioning March as a vehicle to elevate your university. It's your #1 advertisement opportunity. Murray's President actually cited UNI's runs in one of the broadcasted BOR meetings. Again, if Murray's in a better league where they aren't tagged with inescapable seeds, the two teams who gave the national champ and national runnerup their tightest game makes one of those deep runs that boosts the school.

Overarching point: think like a President.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Murray State soldout tonight with 8600 vs Belmont on espnu.

[mvfcfan]

Jacksonville State beat Murray State by 20 tonight to take sole possession of 1st place in the OVC.

[Majik45]

Jacksonville State beat Murray State by 20 tonight to take sole possession of 1st place in the OVC.

And somehow Bradley beat Jacksonville State earlier this season.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

4-way tie for first broken as Jacksonville State slips up at the 1-9 Skyhawks.