Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

[SubGod22]

Obviously I can only base my observations on the UNI fans who post on this board. May not be representative. The majority of really good non power 5 basketball programs are at schools that don't fund football. Take a look at the top 100 RPI teams. Other than Power 5 conferences, a large percentage of the teams are non-football. I know there are exceptions year to year, but those who focus on basketball seem to have had more success.

Then explain the MVC

[uniftw]

Obviously I can only base my observations on the UNI fans who post on this board. May not be representative. The majority of really good non power 5 basketball programs are at schools that don't fund football. Take a look at the top 100 RPI teams. Other than Power 5 conferences, a large percentage of the teams are non-football. I know there are exceptions year to year, but those who focus on basketball seem to have had more success.

The UNI fans that post here? Myself, BC, and 99?

All we have ever said is that UNI will only move FBS in an effort to protect the basketball program. UNI football is going no where if it doesn't have too. UNI isn't looking to move to the MAC because we want football there. That move would only happen if the MAC became a better basketball home than the MVC.

The relationship UNI has with the MAC as an affiliate is different than UE has. UNI has other options for wrestling in the area - and left a conference for the MAC. Again, no matter how I explain the situation it will sound like the "sealed envolope" at MSU from the Sun Belt. That isn't the case, however, a large part of moving wrestling from an existing conference (which has since been absorbed by the B12) was to build a relationship for future endeavors. To see how well the two parties co-existed. Nothing is happening. However, it wouldn't shock me if something did if/when the MAC becomes a better home for basketball in terms of conference RPI/stability/future.

Sure look at the top 100. Then look at the bottom 100 and see how many basketball only schools are there.Not having football doesn't promise s*** - see Bradley, or Evansville or Drake to be honest.

[IllinoisState]

[

I haven't looked. I was just wondering if the regular season number were out yet.

http://www.mvc.org/mbb/stats/team.pdf

Note that this does include post-season games.

I appreciate it, thanks.

[All-MVC Fan]

What UNI fan has any of the delusions you are talking about?

Football drains money from the Valley? Football is waht is keeping the Valley back?

Really?

Basketball funding levels - sans WSU since they are gone - in order
Bradley - 3.12m
UNI - 2.99
Evansville - 2.98m
Loyola - 2.74m
Illinois State - 2.45m
Drake - 2.41m
Missouri State - 2.27m
Southern Illinois - 2.24m
Indiana State - 1.82m

Pretty tough to say football is keeping the conference back when a football school is second, and privates like Drake are bottom half and less than 200K higher than football schools

Sure, I guess UNI could take the 3.7m it spends on football and put it into basketball. Same with Illinois State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois and we'll just forget Indiana State because they don't fund anything. The reality is, if those schools dumped every penny of football into basketball Drake, Evansville and Bradley would be even further behind than they already are.

Contrary to your "UNI fans have football delusions of FBS and blah blah blah", there is a large number of UNI fans that would rather drop football and dump it into BB than pay for football


Also, you want to know why UNI fans are worried like we are? Once Wichita St. leaves, MVC men's basketball teams will have played just 9 combined NCAA tournament games since 2009. 8 of those are by UNI. It's legitimately UNI and no one else, in terms of "national relevance" once WSU is gone.

In reading the Indiana State board, it seems that they spend more on football than UNI. I think the number I saw was $3.8M. ROI? Iffy, but strangely, they spend on football...

[TheAsianSensation]

Sounds like the real problem is competing agendas.

Some have football, some don't. Some might be looking to a FBS future, a couple aren't. And even among the basketball schools, there's different level of resources.

The MVC is likely to have 5 football schools and 5 non-football schools in the future. Ugly split. (obviously not counting Drake's non-scholly).

The MVCF is going to have 5 Summit schools, 5 MVC schools, and a Horizon school in the future. Ugly split.

If I'm Elgin, I'm already trying to plant the seed that convinces the Dakotas that the Summit should sponsor football. That way, if any of MSU/ISU/UNI leave, Summit takes football, can invite SIU/InSU as affiliate members, and that's that.

[Cdizzle]

It will be interesting to watch over time if WSU doesn't go to the NCAA tourney for a few years(say they get 3-4-5th in the AAC) if Marshall will stay?

One of the points of moving to the AAC is that you can get 3rd and still make the tournament.

Also, I know Marshall leaving WSU is everyone's favorite fantasy. Other than Marshall sucking while at WSU. But it's probably worth noting that a Gregg Marshall team has finished worse than 2nd in conference in 3 of his 19 years as a D1 head coach. The dude is a stone-cold winner.

[uniftw]

What UNI fan has any of the delusions you are talking about?

Football drains money from the Valley? Football is waht is keeping the Valley back?

Really?

Basketball funding levels - sans WSU since they are gone - in order
Bradley - 3.12m
UNI - 2.99
Evansville - 2.98m
Loyola - 2.74m
Illinois State - 2.45m
Drake - 2.41m
Missouri State - 2.27m
Southern Illinois - 2.24m
Indiana State - 1.82m

Pretty tough to say football is keeping the conference back when a football school is second, and privates like Drake are bottom half and less than 200K higher than football schools

Sure, I guess UNI could take the 3.7m it spends on football and put it into basketball. Same with Illinois State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois and we'll just forget Indiana State because they don't fund anything. The reality is, if those schools dumped every penny of football into basketball Drake, Evansville and Bradley would be even further behind than they already are.

Contrary to your "UNI fans have football delusions of FBS and blah blah blah", there is a large number of UNI fans that would rather drop football and dump it into BB than pay for football


Also, you want to know why UNI fans are worried like we are? Once Wichita St. leaves, MVC men's basketball teams will have played just 9 combined NCAA tournament games since 2009. 8 of those are by UNI. It's legitimately UNI and no one else, in terms of "national relevance" once WSU is gone.

In reading the Indiana State board, it seems that they spend more on football than UNI. I think the number I saw was $3.8M. ROI? Iffy, but strangely, they spend on football...

I double checked - they do. Wow. Where the hell is that money going? I don't know what their new coach makes, but the one that just left was making just $180,000. The lowest in the MVFC. I would imagine the assistant average was about 60K. Let's say they had $600,000 tied up in coaches. Let's pretend they fund all 63 scholarships every year (they don't). That is about 1.5m. So, there's 2.1 of the 3.8m. Their entire mens athletic recruiting budget is 231,000. Let's give football half of that. So we are at 2.25m of a 3.8m budget. Where in the flying hell is that other 1.6m going? They have the worst stadium in the conference - by far - with seats on just one side. Travel doesn't cost 1.6m for 6 road games, especially since the FBS team pays for the travel of the road team and ISU plays regional FBS teams.

Holy crap. My mind hurts right now.

[squirrel]

Those Indiana St numbers are interesting. I don't know how much of a dent into that difference it would make, but I will say that the entire state of Indiana, Kentucky and even southern/southeast Illinois are not exactly havens for football. I'd be willing to bet by virtue of their geographic disposition, their recruiting expenditures are significantly greater than the league norm.

Accordingly, they probably have a higher rate of out-of-state players, and so the scholarships being paid on out-of-state rates is greater. But that is pure conjecture on my part.

[BCPanther]

Sounds like the real problem is competing agendas.

Some have football, some don't. Some might be looking to a FBS future, a couple aren't. And even among the basketball schools, there's different level of resources.

The MVC is likely to have 5 football schools and 5 non-football schools in the future. Ugly split. (obviously not counting Drake's non-scholly).

The MVCF is going to have 5 Summit schools, 5 MVC schools, and a Horizon school in the future. Ugly split.

If I'm Elgin, I'm already trying to plant the seed that convinces the Dakotas that the Summit should sponsor football. That way, if any of MSU/ISU/UNI leave, Summit takes football, can invite SIU/InSU as affiliate members, and that's that.

This is an outstanding post.

We're on the cusp of a Big East type split here, though admittedly on a much smaller scale. Creighton and Wichita were kind of the glue that held the two factions together, but with that buffer gone, I don't know how this league goes forward with its current make up. I would imagine they'll have to add three here, because I find it really hard to believe that there can be enough consensus to get to one choice and then that doesn't even ensure that the better football schools (UNI, IlSU for sure and SIU and MSU to a lesser extent) still don't go looking for an invite.

As fans we certainly deal in hyperbole, but if this is botched, we're on the cusp of the Summit and Horizon being in a position to poach Valley schools rather than the other way it's always been...

[uniftw]

Those Indiana St numbers are interesting. I don't know how much of a dent into that difference it would make, but I will say that the entire state of Indiana, Kentucky and even southern/southeast Illinois are not exactly havens for football. I'd be willing to bet by virtue of their geographic disposition, their recruiting expenditures are significantly greater than the league norm.

Accordingly, they probably have a higher rate of out-of-state players, and so the scholarships being paid on out-of-state rates is greater. But that is pure conjecture on my part.

I figured scholarships at 27K - instate is 21k and out of state is 31k. Even making all 63 scholarships out of state we are only adding 300K to the numbers I already figured. They still have over a million dollars unaccounted for somewhere. At programs like UNI/NDSU/SDSU those can be accounted for in terms of equipment, higher coaches salary, higher facility maintenance, etc...

Indiana State's entire recruiting budget, for all mens sports, is $231,000. Which isn't really out of line from any other MVC/MVFC school.