Should the Missouri Valley expand?

[ihsi]

....a serious power move would be adding Butler, SLU, Dayton and Cleveland St.

West: UNI, MSU, SIU, SLU, Creighton, Wichita St. Drake,
East: Dayton, Cleveland St., Evansville, Indiana St., Butler, Illinois St., Bradley

This type of conference could get 3-4 bids every year. The added tv markets would be excellent as well.

Isn't that pretty much exactly what was proposed on the new main board? I agree it would be awesome.

[SubGod22]

Did Cleveland State recently have a change in coaches or AD? When it comes to expansion talk I always look at RPI to try and gauge where they fit in with the Valley. CSU has made some pretty good progress recently, but the question would be, 'is it sustainable?'. RPIs of recent years are - 42, 165, 52, 65, 266, 246, 280, 306. I'm not sure what that says. Pros would be it's farther east and in Cleveland. Cons are definitely attendence.

Wright State I don't know much about, but the breakdown provided made me wonder about them. Location is good, even though it increases travel costs. But like I've said before, that should NOT be a factor when determining expansion candidates. RPIs for Wright State are - 124, 80, 93, 84, 73, 179, 170, 170. What caused this change? Coach? AD? Is it sustainable? Adding teams that are at least Top 100 types is where we need to focus.

I believe he mentioned Loyola as one that could be considered as he likes what's going on in the athletic department. I know the travel would make our eastern friends who are so concerned with that happy. But I honestly don't know much else about them other than location. RPIs for Loyola are - 197, 213, 214, 221, 102, 140, 219, 219. I don't see what they offer. AFA is a better choice than that.

Then there's Valley favorite SLU. RPIs of 175, 87, 123, 75, 101, 244, 59. Not sure they bring much to the table other than location. Apparently the Majerus magic didn't really take hold...

[ihsi]

Ok, I'll say it. If the powers that be want to make the Valley a destination for good basketball schools then we need to get rid of our bottom feeders. Lose Evansville, Drake, and Illinois State. Add Butler, Dayton, and someone else.

Imagine this league: Creighton, Missouri St, Wichita St, Butler, Dayton, Indiana State, Northern Iowa, Bradley, Southern Illinois.

[BirdmanBB]

....a serious power move would be adding Butler, SLU, Dayton and Cleveland St.

West: UNI, MSU, SIU, SLU, Creighton, Wichita St. Drake,
East: Dayton, Cleveland St., Evansville, Indiana St., Butler, Illinois St., Bradley

This type of conference could get 3-4 bids every year. The added tv markets would be excellent as well.

Isn't that pretty much exactly what was proposed on the new main board? I agree it would be awesome.

They had Detroit and I have Dayton. I think Cleveland St. along with Dayton would make for a nice rivalry. Plus Dayton is a much better grab than Detroit.

[BirdmanBB]

Ok, I'll say it. If the powers that be want to make the Valley a destination for good basketball schools then we need to get rid of our bottom feeders. Lose Evansville, Drake, and Illinois State. Add Butler, Dayton, and someone else.

Imagine this league: Creighton, Missouri St, Wichita St, Butler, Dayton, Indiana State, Northern Iowa, Bradley, Southern Illinois.

Before this past year, Indiana St. was considered a huge bottom feeder. Drake is also a charter member aren't they? I would be shocked if the valley would try to drop us (ISU). The only school that has been questionable time and time again is Evansville.

No one will be kicked out or leave the valley unless they do it on their own accord. Swapping Evansville for Butler would be interesting, but that is where I'll leave it. I don't want to piss off the aces with this kind of talk.

[unipanther99]

Ok, I'll say it. If the powers that be want to make the Valley a destination for good basketball schools then we need to get rid of our bottom feeders. Lose Evansville, Drake, and Illinois State. Add Butler, Dayton, and someone else.

Imagine this league: Creighton, Missouri St, Wichita St, Butler, Dayton, Indiana State, Northern Iowa, Bradley, Southern Illinois.

Drake is the only current and founding member of the Missouri Valley Conference. There is no way they are going anywhere. Drake has great history and proved it could still compete in 2008. The Phelps era isn't going so great, but they are very capable of turning things around.

Same for Illinois State. Good history, they've had solid teams recently, good facilities, and could easily turn things around. The only way they leave is if they can somehow average 15K for football two years in a row and jump to FBS.

I really don't like this "what have you done for me lately" mentality in college sports these days. It's always been there, but it seems the "lately" party has come to mean last year instead of the last decade.

[ihsi]

My suggestion of dropping current MVC teams because they haven't been great recently was a joke, sort of. Recent history only means so much. If people are going to make the argument that Air Force shouldn't join the Valley because they aren't any good, they need to look at some of our own schools first. Air Force has been to 3 NCAA tournaments in the last decade I think which is a lot more than I can say for most of our membership.

[BirdmanBB]

so with this hypothetical conference....

East: Dayton, Cleveland St., Butler, Evansville, Indiana St., Illinois St., Bradley
West: SLU, SIU, UNI, Drake, Wichita St., Creighton, MSU

We move to a 19 game conference schedule and drop the bracketbuster (the extra game will likely be better than anything you can get from the BB anyways). You play home and homes in your division for 12 games and then one game against the other division. You set a rotating schedule so one year the east division gets 4 home games and then the next year they get 3 (with 4 on the road). The best part about this is that this mimics what the bracketbuster does with home and away so no one should have a problem with it.

[BirdmanBB]

My suggestion of dropping current MVC teams because they haven't been great recently was a joke, sort of. Recent history only means so much. If people are going to make the argument that Air Force shouldn't join the Valley because they aren't any good, they need to look at some of our own schools first. Air Force has been to 3 NCAA tournaments in the last decade I think which is a lot more than I can say for most of our membership.

True, but the whole idea behind expansion is to improve your conference. Adding a historically mediocre basketball team only means less money for each school through revenue sharing. In my conference expansion scenario we would be adding strength to our conference and more NCAA bids. I would even contend that a conference like that would end up being much stronger than all other mid major conferences and potentially some BCS ones like the PAC. I initially said we could get 3-4 bids, but we could possibly be getting 4-5 every year. There would be much more strength within the conference once NCAA selection comes around and teams that just barely miss the cut like WSU and MSU would have likely made it along with teams like Butler and Dayton and potentially another team as well.

A scenario like this would be enticing for A10 teams to jump on board even though they are currently getting about 3 bids every year.....along with less travel.

[Coogles]

Why would Butler even think about moving? Butler makes the NCAA on a regular basis, switching to the MVC would hinder that. The MVC does nothing for Butler. Butler does not need the MVC nearly as much as the MVC needs Butler.

Southern Illinois made the NCAA tournament six straight years out of the Valley. A team that's good enough will make the NCAA tournament out of the Valley, just as it would out of the Horizon. The regular season would be more difficult, but the hope is that the MVC also returns to being a conference where it's okay to lose a few games and still make the trounament.

Here's a little bit about the Horizon's revenue sharing policy -

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42273328/Butler_ ... inning_Pie

From what I understand, the team that generated the NCAA shares gets 30% of the $250k per game/per year the first year before the share is split evenly among all ten members 5 years after.

Assuming the share has been a constant $250k - with the 30% cut the first year, last year's run alone is worth $375k for 2011-12. Add that to previous shares and they'll receive $761k this year. That will drop to $456k next year before the 2012 NCAAT is factored in.

As an aside, this is the last year Valley schools will receive NCAA tourney revenue from that 2005-06 season. NCAA revenues this year would be $450k for each Valley school, but will drop to $250k next year before any 2012 tournament shares are included.

NCAAT revenues factor in the most only in the year immediately after a big run. After that it drops back to an even 10% split. There will some cash strolling in for the forseeable future, but it shouldn't be anything the Valley isn't capable of matching. The HL is getting 5 shares for each of the past two years. One team in the Sweet 16 (3 games) and another losing in the first found gets you 4. The Valley is certainly capable of getting to that point. Not only that, but I think switching to the Valley could more than make up for the NCAAT revenue lost in ticket sales and additional marketing opportunities. An extra 1,500 fans per game over a 16 game home slate, at $20/ticket, would be an additional $480k at the gate. I don't think there's any question the Valley sells significantly better than the Horizon does.

Anyway, it's too bad I don't work in the athletic department. I'd be in our AD's ear every day about finding a way into MVC. Unfortunately, I just don't think there's mutual interest.