Creighton to A-10?

[TylerDurden]

Disparity in MVC schools men's BB budgets makes for different agendas and forces the top teams to look for better longterm opportunities. Elgin & the have not schools certainly aren't looking out for the Jay's best interests. MVC needs the Jays, would be a huge step down without them.

Ah, the haves vs. have nots.

Please do share with us which schools are haves and which are have nots. Also can you enlighten us about what those schools and Elgin have done to look out for or ignore Creighton's interests?

[uniftw]

Yes, neither has football, but Notre Dame is in the Big East without including football, so it wouldn't be impossible.

Notre Dame has been in the BE since 1995, and has been indy football since they started the program.

The "name" that is Notre Dame, even for non-football sports is huge. The marketing the BE gets from alumns of ND following the BE from all over the country is huge. The money is huge.


The only thing similar between CU and ND is private and catholic. I don't care if CU has a better basketball team right now...the CU name gets you really nothing outside of the upper midwest.


If you, or anyone, can't see that and sees CU as a national name like ND that can pull strings however they want....I can't help you.

[havoc]

Here is Jimmy Lemke's anaylsis of why Wisconsin-Milwaukee would be a good fit for the Valley.

link: The MVC Report - Wiscosin-Milwaukee a candidate for MVC expansion?

I realize this guy is a Milwaukee fan, but there are a few things in this article that maybe stretch the truth just a little bit. I'm not trying to make a case for either team.

Unlike Wright State, the Panthers are a geographical fit in the conference, they’ve got real success in the NCAA Tournament, and they are a name brand.

According to Google Maps, the average distance from Milwaukee to current MVC towns is 402.84 miles. Take out Omaha and it goes to 390. The average distance from Dayton to current MVC towns is 467.14 miles. Take out Omaha and it goes to 438, so Milwaukee is a geographically better fit for the conference by 48 miles.

The closest Valley schools to Milwaukee are Bradley, Illinois Sate, and UNI at 230, 208, and 271 miles respectively. The furthest Valley schools (not counting CU) are WSU and MSU at 765 and 592.

The closest Valley schools To Wright State are Indiana State, Evansville, and Illinois State at 189, 276, and 284. The furthest Valley schools are Wichita, Drake, MSU, and UNI at 788, 584, 573, and 559.

Conclusion, both school are pretty well equal when it comes to travel.

Milwaukee does have real NCAA success with a Sweet 16 visit in Bruce Pearl era. They've made 3 trips to the NCAAs and have a record of 3-3. Wright State has made two trips with a record of 0-2.

The biggest problem I have with Mr. Lemke's above statement is that Milwaukee is a name brand. As far as name recognition, I would say they would rank near the bottom in the current MVC field. The may have more name recognition than Wright State, but calling UW-Milwaukee a name brand might be a bit of a stretch.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Didn't Milwaukee just lose its coach?

As an expansion candidate, I think Milwaukee would be okay. I like the size of the market and it would help MVC schools in their attempts to recruit there, but otherwise it is sort of a meh.

[cpacmel]

Good data havoc.

Didn't Milwaukee just lose its coach?

Jeter is still there. His name has come up for a few jobs the last few years, including Bradley's.

As an expansion candidate, I think Milwaukee would be okay. I like the size of the market and it would help MVC schools in their attempts to recruit there, but otherwise it is sort of a meh.

Milwaukee is a nice market, but UW-Mil is pretty non-extistent right now there. Milwaukee = Marquette. It's really no different than Chicago with DePaul and Loyola, UIC, etc.

Would be good for recruiting. Anyone know anything about there other sports?

[BirdmanBB]

I've done financial projections for NYSE companies and have a great track record of nailing them.

30,000 attendance at $40 per seat = $1.2 mill. $1.2 mill times 6 home games = $7.2 mill. 2 OOC suicide games at $1 mill each = $2 mill. I'm assuming you're not buying any OOC home games,which is nearly impossible.

That gives you $9.2 mill to work with.

Head coach $2 mill. Asst coaches $1 mill - You want to compete - right? That leaves you $6.2 mill

200 scholarships (gotta cover the Title IX women's sports). I don't know all the school's tuitions, but let's say it's $25K. That's $5 mill. Now you've got $1.2 mill left.

Travel costs, facilities upgrades (you want to compete -right?), additional facilities for more women's sports, coaching staffs for additional women's sports, insurance for the athletes, then throw in the little stuff - like supplies for trainers. $1.2 mill will disappear so fast it will make your head spin.

To get an average attendance of 30K, you almost have to have a facility that will hold 40 - 50K. Then you have to actually be able to put those butts in seats. It's a huge struggle to raise attendance from 10 - 20K to 20 - 40K. You've got to be able to get an additional 10K to 20K people there, and that's unlikely for a school with minimal tradition and following.

Before I hear the "we've got great tradition", Kansas and Kansas State really struggle to put 40K in their places unless they're having a great year or their opponents buy 20K tickets. Those schools have been in the highest FB classification FOREVER and they're in a BCS conference. If Kansas State didn't get the big bucks from the B12's BCS appearances, their athletic department would be bankrupt.

While I can agree with much of this as a base, you also forget that there are other revenue streams that you are neglecting to include.....food and beverage, marketing, donation, merchandising,TV, State funding, School appropriated funding, post season revenue and misc. For example under misc. would be hosting events and such. I know that the redbirds are attempting to get the IHSA Football playoffs back at Illinois State which is another revenue generator. If schools like EMU are able to get by when no one shows up, I think there must be ways to get it done even with 15-20K seating outside of straight ticket sales.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Good data havoc.

Didn't Milwaukee just lose its coach?

Jeter is still there. His name has come up for a few jobs the last few years, including Bradley's.

I had heard that he was getting the Mississippi St job. After checking quickly, it hasn't happened yet.

[Red]

If Creighton does go to the A10 it seems like the first step in the formation of a Catholic League. The concern to me would be that the Big East isn't stable at 16 so why would the A10 be stable at that size?

[Aargh]

While I can agree with much of this as a base, you also forget that there are other revenue streams that you are neglecting to include.....food and beverage, marketing, donation, merchandising,TV, State funding, School appropriated funding, post season revenue and misc. For example under misc. would be hosting events and such. I know that the redbirds are attempting to get the IHSA Football playoffs back at Illinois State which is another revenue generator. If schools like EMU are able to get by when no one shows up, I think there must be ways to get it done even with 15-20K seating outside of straight ticket sales.

I also left out the cost of building the freaking 30-40K stadium. Want me to run the numbers at an average of 15K attendance?

UNI capacity = 16K
MSU capacity = 16K
IlSU capacity = 14K (after a $20 mill renovation they're just finishing)
SIU capacity - 15K ($29.9 mill stadium completed in 2010)

Creighton gets more people to basketball games than any of those schools can fit into their FB stadiums. Basketball = 13 scholarships and 4 coaches. Creighton is in a position to do more with their basketball program than the FB schools in the Valley can do with their BB programs. The effects of that economic disparity haven't totally revealed themselves yet, but it doesn't take a PhD in Economics to see that CU is in a different situation and that, long-term, an affiliation with another conference is something they need to consider.

[DoubleJayAlum]

If Creighton does go to the A10 it seems like the first step in the formation of a Catholic League. The concern to me would be that the Big East isn't stable at 16 so why would the A10 be stable at that size?

Because there isn't any football in the A10?