1st Team All Valley/2nd Team All Valley

[mule]

Teams play very similar schedules in conference, not the exact same schedule.

I''ll bite. What makes the 18 games only similar?

[Cdizzle]

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

ISU fans Saturday: "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE PLAYING YOUR STARTERS UP 30, ESPECIALLY WITH INTENSITY"

ISU fans Wednesday: "Your starters aren't as good cause they only average 23 minutes per game."

[Redbirds4Life]

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

ISU fans Saturday: "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE PLAYING YOUR STARTERS UP 30, ESPECIALLY WITH INTENSITY"

ISU fans Wednesday: "Your starters aren't as good cause they only average 23 minutes per game."

I'm sorry, but you didn't hear me say that...I'm just asking the question respectfully...there goes that last bit of respect I had for you....

[Cdizzle]

Teams play very similar schedules in conference, not the exact same schedule.

I''ll bite. What makes the 18 games only similar?

For example, Evansville is playing a MUCH more difficult schedule than ISU or WSU. Evansville has 4 games against teams with a .820 win%. WSU and ISU replace two of those games with two games against a team with a .400 win%

[Khan4Cats]

It's hard to judge why and how voters choose to do what they do. I think you have to look at the overall but then place the conference results within that. I think the voters have actually been pretty good about the POY/FOY type awards with rewarding a player who may not always have the gaudy stats but is the key cog on one of the top teams in the league. Some programs emphasize the whole over the individual (thinking specifically WSU and UNI here) and they have been rewarded with POY's that maybe otherwise didn't put up eye-popping numbers. I think the Adam Emmenecker award was also deserving despite the numbers because of what he did to make that team work.

I do have a problem with some of the conference teams that award some players for simply putting up big numbers without the results to go with them. Here I am thinking of Evansville's system that sets it up for one player to get a ton of shots and end up with a huge PPG but at the expense of actually winning games most of the time. It's also where some of the other players on teams that are balanced get pushed aside because of gaudy numbers-Tekele Cotton being the obvious example here of someone who could dominate a game without necessarily putting up a ton of 'stats'.

[Cdizzle]

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

ISU fans Saturday: "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE PLAYING YOUR STARTERS UP 30, ESPECIALLY WITH INTENSITY"

ISU fans Wednesday: "Your starters aren't as good cause they only average 23 minutes per game."

I'm sorry, but you didn't hear me say that...I'm just asking the question respectfully...there goes that last bit of respect I had for you....

You didn't complain about it. Lots did. Which is why my comment was not intended to be directed just at you. But you did make an argument that minutes per game mattered. And I made a very valid point. WSU is winning games by 20ppg. It's hard for guys to average 32mpg in that environment. It doesn't mean everything, but it does mean something, especially if people just want to look at raw ppg numbers.

As for Brown, I think defensively he is pretty much always locked in. More and more as the season progresses. He had been in a horrendous offensive funk for the first 10-ish games of the conference season that I think was making him look timid and a little out of it on that side of the court. He's shown some signs of leveling that off a little bit this week.

[Khan4Cats]

I think Brown would play quite a few more minutes if the Shockers were in a game that was closer than 15 points most of the time.

I would have also thrown Morgan into the mix for best defensive player in the Valley, but he has been battling an ankle sprain and has not been his usual self this year, especially since Valley play started.

[Stickboy46]

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

Brown shares time with McDuffie a lot of times. Brown is an elite defender but average on offense. Lee is above average defensively and above average offense. There is also no one else on the ISUr team that comes close to Lee. There are multiple options that are really really good options for Marshall with WSU.

[BirdsEyeView]

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

Brown shares time with McDuffie a lot of times. Brown is an elite defender but average on offense. Lee is above average defensively and above average offense. There is also no one else on the ISUr team that comes close to Lee. There are multiple options that are really really good options for Marshall with WSU.

You think Lee is just an above average defender? So right now, Brown = DPOY if he is elite to you?

Just curious. ISUr team defense is outstanding and it starts from that PG who is "above average" (minus one game, which I can't comment on since I never watched it)

[Cdizzle]

I think both Brown and Lee are very good defenders. I think Brown is better, though obviously I am biased. How frequently does Lee guard the opposing team's best scoring option? Clearly both teams have very good all-around defenses, so it can get hard to kind of compare 1v1 at different positions.