Chest Bumper

[MoValley John]

[quote="jlandrus11"]I don't think chest bumping is wrong at all. [/quote]

I don't think it's wrong at all, either, to the degree that it is an emotional response to a positive play. So it is great within reason. In that manner, a fist pump or three or four pounds to the chest as you turn and run down back court is fine, it even livens the crowd. That type of emotional response is natural and I don't think anyone has a problem with it.

On the flipside, flexing, choreographed gorilla antics, staring down the opposing bench and so on, is simply unwarranted and intended only to draw attention to yourself. It has no place in college sports. The Miami Hurricanes used to "Pop their tops" after a big play, other than when you are injured, it is now illegal to remove your helmet while on the field. That is the result of Miami's behavior and the NCAA attempting to create rules to stop the same type of showboating that we are discussing. And yes, it can become a very, very grey area when an official has to determine the difference between normal exhuberance and showboating, but they try.

P'Allen Stinnett was called for many of his stupid antics, he also got away with many. His last year at Creighton, he had built a reputation and officials looked to call him for anything. I even saw officials bait him. He got away with nothing, in fact, his final technical was given long after the play and because Cuonzo Martin told the official to T him up. The official obliged. Stinnett was T'd up because of his reputation. A reputation he built on his own and he deserved. Weems has now built a reputation for this behavior and if it continues next year, officials might call it a lot tighter on him.

Lastly, If I were a college official, I wouldn't T up anyone for pounding their chest a little after a play, but the first time I saw a player flexing down the court, the offender would be assessed a T and the other team would get two shots and the ball.

[PeKaph]

I'm sure you would. And I'm sure that the NCAA agrees. And I'm also sure that the college game is completely in the toilet right now, and attitudes like yours and that are part of the reason why.

Face it: you hate Kyle Weems because (a) he's good, and (b) he beats your team and there isn't a thing you can do about it. Keep on hating. He doesn't care. If you don't like it, that means that he's doing it right. Your continued attempts at rationalizing your hate are funny, but in the end meaningless.

And it wouldn't surprise me if the crappy officiating tried to go after him next year. It'd be an indictment on the MVC and Elgin way more than Kyle.

[Ace Dad]

I'm sure you would. And I'm sure that the NCAA agrees. And I'm also sure that the college game is completely in the toilet right now, and attitudes like yours and that are part of the reason why.

Face it: you hate Kyle Weems because (a) he's good, and (b) he beats your team and there isn't a thing you can do about it. Keep on hating. He doesn't care. If you don't like it, that means that he's doing it right. Your continued attempts at rationalizing your hate are funny, but in the end meaningless.

And it wouldn't surprise me if the crappy officiating tried to go after him next year. It'd be an indictment on the MVC and Elgin way more than Kyle.

You have a unique view of the college game and MVC fans. Many MVC fans appreciate our opponent's better players because they are good basketball players. I attended the Evansville at Drake game on Senior Night and when the Drake senior drained his 3rd three, I had to stand up and give him a standing ovation. Same thing after Odom drained the jump shot. I looked at my wife and said "he is a special player." I loved watching the maturation and development of each team's key players. In fact, I have accidentally stayed at the opposing team's hotel when they were on the road and the players were great. It is a game. We are bigger than that. Only immature creatures get into the "hate game" in college sports. Over the years I am one of the last people to bad-mouth a player on this forum. I defend players who are indefensible. Weems needs to quickly transition into a mature college player who can handle success and defeat with the same dignity. He is too demonstrative and nothing, nothing, good comes from this.

[PeKaph]

Over the years I am one of the last people to bad-mouth a player on this forum. I defend players who are indefensible.

I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

[oneNEIGHBOR]

I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

[MoValley John]

[quote="PeKaph"]I'm sure you would. And I'm sure that the NCAA agrees. And I'm also sure that the college game is completely in the toilet right now, and attitudes like yours and that are part of the reason why.

Face it: you hate Kyle Weems because (a) he's good, and (b) he beats your team and there isn't a thing you can do about it. Keep on hating. He doesn't care. If you don't like it, that means that he's doing it right. Your continued attempts at rationalizing your hate are funny, but in the end meaningless.

And it wouldn't surprise me if the crappy officiating tried to go after him next year. It'd be an indictment on the MVC and Elgin way more than Kyle.[/quote]

If this was directed at me, let me explain myself a little bit more clearly, I am taking great lengths to keep my posts completely devoid of emotion. I take a step back and I try to look at things without a bias nor emotion. Many people don't like it, especially when it is in regard to their team, coaches or players. If you look at my posts on the Jim Les thread, you will see that I posted things matter of factly with how salaries and expectations are set; and I did this not as a fan of Bradley or as a person who hates their program, it was an assessment of how college basketball works and moreover, how the world works. The same goes for this thread.

With that, I have never said that I hate Kyle Weems, and for the record, I don't, he's a special player most teams would love to have. I am also pretty sure that he is a positive role model within the Springfield community. I do not hate Kyle Weems. Furthermore, I don't hate P'Allen Stinnett, but at the same time, I never condoned his antics. I never hated any player that played on any team in the Valley, not Eglseder, not Kwadzo, not Sean Ogirri and not Jamal Tatum or Osiris Eldridge. These are kids that made difficult decisions to attend a school and get an education, hating any of them is silly. So no, I'm not rationalizing hate, I'm simply making an assessment of a situation, you are more than free to disagree with me but please don't misconstrue my opinion with hate.

As for Kyle's antics, I'm simply stating what I believe is the threshold for a players behavior. In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with thumping your chest a couple of times after a big play, there is nothing wrong with a fist pump or two, there is nothing wrong with waiving your arms to get the crow involved at a critical part of the game so on and so forth. On the other hand, there is something wrong with making a production out of what you do. And if the things that Weems had done happened once or twice, that could be summed up as emotion, but towards the end of the season, it happened every game, over and over again. It became habitual. At that point, it is beyond showing emotion, it is showboating and taunting.

[Unsmooth Moment]

I would rather have someone who plays with emotion (a fist bump or waving arms around trying to get the HOME team to stand up) than someone who cries to the refs after every play that doesn't go their way.

[MoValley John]

[quote="Unsmooth Moment"]I would rather have someone who plays with emotion (a fist bump or waving arms around trying to get the HOME team to stand up) than someone who cries to the refs after every play that doesn't go their way.[/quote]

I would agree with that.

[WSUbballer]

Wait, the NCAA is in the toilet right now and the MVC and Elgin have it in for you guys because they don't want Weems to look and act like a d-bag? Are you serious?

Why is it that Jamar Howard was the worst representation of WSU with his attitude and mannerisms and WSU fans have admitted to these, but yet when a guy on your team does things that appear to be worse, it's ok and everyone is "hating" on him because "he's just too good"?

I can't believe any MSU fan would defend these actions. Then again, you aren't really defending him. You keep ignoring the actions of Weems and are determined to change the subject and put the blame on other entities - the NCAA, the MVC, Doug Elgin, etc.

Wow. This just keeps getting better and better.

[WSUbballer]

Unsmooth, you do realize you're describing Will Creekmore in your second thought, right?