Counzo Martin new Tennessee Vols coach

[PowderBlue]

Wow. Kinda surprising that this happened this quickly. IIRC, Pearl was hired to coach Tennessee after being at USI...some at ISUb were hoping for a shot at getting Pearl to move a short distance north from Evansville...so I guess it shouldn't be a real huge shock that Tennessee was willing to pick from a mid major program and not pluck a big time assistant from a BCS bench.

Zo certainly fits the Pearl mold of high energy coach. It will be interesting to see if he's able to coach/recruit with the big boys on a consistent basis.

[MoValley John]

[quote="Unsmooth Moment"] I don't agree with saying he would have maxed out at 600K. That is a pretty good raise in my standards for winning a subpar regular season Valley title and being in his 3rd year. If he were to stay and his recruits were to become pretty good, I'm sure one long run in the NCAA tourney would have been enough to bump up his pay to around a mill.[/quote]

Earlier in this thread I do believe an MSU fan said that $600 was about the ceiling for what MSU could pay. I don't know what MSU could pay, I was basing that figure on what a previous MSU fan had posted. Had Cuonzo stayed, put butts in seats and won, I'm sure the administration could find money to keep him. I am puzzled why any coach would leave a program to go to another program that on the surface looks like an upcoming huge trainwreck. Tennessee is a trainwreck in a black hole.

That said, I don't think you need to pay a coach a million a year, in fact, I think salaries, even at the big schools will begin to shrink. What I believe, is that you need to pay a coach competitively, and you need to respect the coach when you have him. Notre Dame pays their football coaches tons of money, you would think coaches would be lining up for that job. It doesn't happen that way. Coaches understand when a fanbase has unrealistic expectations and they understand when coaches are treated very poorly. I always thought Missouri State needed to replace Barry, but I thought the way the Missouri State fans treated him was a travesty. When coaches interview at Missouri State, they understand what Barry was paid and how Barry was treated. When they are hired, they also know just how ugly it can get there. Compensation is huge, but how a person is treated is also very important. This is why even with a huge budget and salary, Notre Dame struggles to hire new coaches, they badmouth them and spit them out like rancid milk.

On the contrary, Bradley just fired Jim Les. And while the Bradley fans debated about firing or keeping Les, they never sunk to the levels that Missouri State fans sunk to with Barry Hinson. Their debates centered on expectations, success and the future of the program. I rarely, if ever saw a thread with hatred towards Les or his family. It never got personal and stuck to the issues of the direction and future of the program. They also hired a coach to replace him that looks like an awfully good hire.

It is easier to hire coaches when they see that type of behavior. The pool of interested and qualified candidates is also larger. It is also easier to keep them there longer when the school has a track record of respecting coaches. Nobody works at Wal Mart if they can get on at a place that pays the same and treats them better. Wal Mart gets the bottom of the barrel and they understand that. Then again, it is hard to find a place that pays worse than Wal Mart.

I honestly hope Missouri State hires another winner, I really do. It is good for the competition in the league and it is good for the league overall. Good hire or bad hire, I just hope that I never again see the ugliness that was directed at Barry Hinson.

[MSUDuo]

There were just some things about ***** ****** that people on the outside of MSU looking in just won't get, and that is fine. Just leave it at that...There is a huge difference between Altman and ******

As for our current situation, nobody thinks less of Martin for taking this job. You would be a fool not to. We just need to get someone in here and hopefully get things calmed down with our current signees and start recruiting again and maybe keep us from going back to 10th place...

We don't have the money to try and keep coaches here. Plain and simple. Dana stayed around because at $1 million dollars, what does an extra $500k-$700 really mean? I have no clue what he is making at Oregon but there is a ton more pressure there then there ever would be at Creighton and he had it made at CU. The money just doesn't matter to some people, ie. Stevens, Mack, Mooney, etc. of all whom are making a nice chuck of change anyways. Martin's offer was to get him to $600k. Big difference between that and $1.5 million.

Don't act like MSU fans think we are this high and mighty school that only deserves this, this, and that. We know who and what we are and that is a school that is dying to get back to the Dance but we understand how we are going to have to do that. With an unproven BCS assistant for around $300k that will bolt once and if he has success...Nothing wrong with that as 95% of every other mid-major has to deal with the same thing

[MoValley John]

[quote="TheTimeIsNow"]First post here, but I just wanted to chime in...

Those of you who have compared Barry and Zo are dead on. As a lifetime Bears fan, who was around during Barry's tenure, I know exactly what you're saying.

I liked Zo, and wish he wouldn't have left, but he was no better than Barry. He's a hot coaching name because of his playing background, and recruiting success at Purdue.

Nearly everyone of Barry's teams were better than our team this year, and that's a fact. Plus, Zo never showed that he could bring in a good freshman class and keep them around. Btw, thank you Barry for recruitng Weems. And good job Zo developing him.[/quote]

This is not the kind of post that will endear you to your fellow Bears fans. If you could find the erase button on the screen, it might be a good time to pull this one back like it never happened.

[MoValley John]

[quote="MSUDuo"]There were just some things about ***** ****** that people on the outside of MSU looking in just won't get, and that is fine. Just leave it at that...There is a huge difference between Altman and ******

As for our current situation, nobody thinks less of Martin for taking this job. You would be a fool not to. We just need to get someone in here and hopefully get things calmed down with our current signees and start recruiting again and maybe keep us from going back to 10th place...

We don't have the money to try and keep coaches here. Plain and simple. Dana stayed around because at $1 million dollars, what does an extra $500k-$700 really mean? I have no clue what he is making at Oregon but there is a ton more pressure there then there ever would be at Creighton and he had it made at CU. The money just doesn't matter to some people, ie. Stevens, Mack, Mooney, etc. of all whom are making a nice chuck of change anyways. Martin's offer was to get him to $600k. Big difference between that and $1.5 million.

Don't act like MSU fans think we are this high and mighty school that only deserves this, this, and that. We know who and what we are and that is a school that is dying to get back to the Dance but we understand how we are going to have to do that. With an unproven BCS assistant for around $300k that will bolt once and if he has success...Nothing wrong with that as 95% of every other mid-major has to deal with the same thing[/quote]

Why can't you say his name? why? He did nothing but win. He simply didn't win enough, I know that, you know that. There is no reason, three years after the fact, to continue to hate a guy so much, especially when he won. He just didn't win enough. There is no reason for the hate.

Also, most of the time when Altman was getting offers, he was in the $5-750,000 range. His salary didn't bump up close to a million until Wichita State bumped Turgeon up to $750,000. Altman had plenty of opportunities to bolt for lots of big money when he was only making 500 grand. Coaches will stay longer for less when they are treated right.

[WSUbballer]

As MVJ stated, it's far easier to hang a banner (for whatever that was worth this year) when you're playing against a bunch of mediocre teams in a middling one-bid conference. How many NCAA games did Barry and Cuonzo participate in?

What the hell did Barry do down in Springfield to piss all of you off besides win and get snubbed by the tournament committee? Jesus, no wonder Martin got out of there as soon as he could.

[MSUDuo]

Like someone else said, you liked Barry because with him here, you knew we weren't a threat. Not so with Cuonzo. He had us heading in the right direction, unlike Barry. Yes, he won some but with the talent he had, he should won more. There is no reason that his 2007 graduating class didn't make the Dance at least once. None. I don't think expecting to be in the Dance once in 9 years is unreasonable. But again, there is stuff that outsiders will never understand just like I won't understand everything that goes on with WSU or CU or SIU.

'Zo would have done more with what Barry had. Barry would not have won the league this year.

MVJ, I realize that 'Zo may or may not have known how Barry was treated but I highly doubt that played a part in his decision. If anything else, he learned for the first time what it is like to work from a mid-major stand point and that the margin for error is so slim. But again, I can't fault him for wanting to move on and out of that, I would in a heartbeat too

[TheTimeIsNow]

You're right, Barry did have more talent, because he recruited better.

MoValley is right on in his assessment of the situation; Barry won, just not enough. Zo failed to win the big game as well.

Zo did a good job getting us to lose a scholarship as well.

[MSUDuo]

You're right, Barry did have more talent, because he recruited better.

MoValley is right on in his assessment of the situation; Barry won, just not enough. Zo failed to win the big game as well.

Zo did a good job getting us to lose a scholarship as well.

You obviously haven't been around very long...That's ok though


Barry caught lighting in a bottle in 2003 with the 4 freshmen from within the state. His other recruiting endeavorer support this very much so.

Cuonzo had nothing to do with the lost scholarship. It was an crappy result of the coaching change from which the great recruiting that Barry did left us in...

[MoValley John]

[quote="MSUDuo"]Like someone else said, you liked Barry because with him here, you knew we weren't a threat. Not so with Cuonzo. He had us heading in the right direction, unlike Barry. Yes, he won some but with the talent he had, he should won more. There is no reason that his 2007 graduating class didn't make the Dance at least once. None. I don't think expecting to be in the Dance once in 9 years is unreasonable. But again, there is stuff that outsiders will never understand just like I won't understand everything that goes on with WSU or CU or SIU.

'Zo would have done more with what Barry had. Barry would not have won the league this year.

MVJ, I realize that 'Zo may or may not have known how Barry was treated but I highly doubt that played a part in his decision. If anything else, he learned for the first time what it is like to work from a mid-major stand point and that the margin for error is so slim. But again, I can't fault him for wanting to move on and out of that, I would in a heartbeat too[/quote]

I know that I don't understand everything that happened at MSU, but I also know that when Bears fans say that everybody else like Barry because he wasn't a threat, that simply isn't true. Coaches, teams and fans respected and to a degree feared Barry Hinson. He had great teams and his teams were always a threat. What Bears fans might not know is that Barry Hinson's teams always had a bullseye on their back. Everybody knew it was going to be tough to win. Sure, fans from other teams liked Barry because he was amicable and gave great interviews, but everybody feared the Bears. The fact that the Bears commanded that much respect from others in the conference is very complimentary and something that you should be proud of, but it is lost with most Bears fans. And that is simply because Barry didn't win enough. He won a lot, but not enough.

What Barry had to coach against was Creighton teams that had players like Korver and Tolliver. He competed against Sean Ogirri and Paul Miller. He had to face against Jamaal Tatum, Young and Randall Falker, and yes, God Shaw God. It didn't get easier, he was trying to win games against McDermott with all his bigs and Jim Les and his year with POB. The Valley, top to bottom was tough as nails and Hinson was in the middle of it. He was no pushover. In all of that, Wichita State won a single regular season tourney and has never won in St Louis. Jim Les never finished any of that, but both parlayed a tough Valley into S-16's. I can't remember, but I think McDermott went to the dance in 2004 by beating Barry in double overtime for the final. That is pretty close and a team others respected and feared. In 2005, Creighton beat Hinson in the finals as well. A team goes to the finals back to back is feared. Hinson had some bad luck getting over the hump but nobody thought he was a slouch. You cannot with a straight face say that the Valley is anywhere near as tough a road today. Barry simply didn't win enough. In 2004 and 05, Barry came one miserable game of thirtysomething played of winning enough.

I am not disparaging the Valley this year or last, there are some really good players and I believe it will be better next, but Barry Hinson jumped into the Valley at its peak and a conference title then was a lot more difficult than it is now. Fans of other schools did fear Barry and the Bears, and Barry won his share of the games, he simply didn't win enough.