If Illinois State goes FBS in football, who replaces them?

[BirdmanBB]

Omg delusional Shox fans. Bill Parcells? Really?

I'm afraid some of the fans wanting to move their MVC FB teams up to the FBS level are nearly that delusional. The dollars involved are astounding. I was trying to point that out in this thread, but all my posts have been redirected toward some other agenda by some other posters.

Unless you're in a geographical area where you can expect 40K butts in seats and have the stadium, infrastructure, and parking to accommodate that, a move to FBS is generally suicidal for an athletic department. It's great for University Presidents and athletic directors to say that is their goal. They know it's pointless, but they know that's what their fans want to hear, so they say it. They will never do it until they see the $$ and I doubt any of them saying that are even half-heartedly going after the $$.

As I mentioned before. It is not my job as a fan to worry about the money, let them take care of it. If they think and say they can do it then I believe them. I think its suicidal to make a promise of FBS from a college president and not deliver on it. I am almost starting to detect a little jealousy in your posts. If it was genuinely as suicidal as you say it is, then there would probably only be about 10-20 teams in FBS football, which clearly there isn't. So I don't put much stock in your numbers. How do you know what they say is pointless? What university are you president of to provide such insight?

[Snaggletooth]

Production of NFL players from the MVC:

WSU - 38
SIU - 32
UNI - 27
Drake - 27
ISU-R - 22
Bradley - 12
ISUB - 11
MSU - 7
Evansville - 4
Creighton - 1

How many of those 38 have won an MVP or made a pro-bowl appearence? I'm not being snarky, I'm truly curious if you have that info.

No I don't. I just found it interesting that wsu who doesn't even play football anymore still has produced more NFL players

[MoValley John]

So, when the serious question of being bold and stepping up to a higher level is asked, many fans balked. That is sad. I don't think the Valley is at the level of playing FBS ball, I don't think the budgets are attainable for most schools, but I do think that there are three or four that could. I wish more fans would dream, though. The MVFC offices probably have considered the FBS question and they probably review it again almost every year. The reason fans don't hear anything about it is because every year, the same results are found, the MVFC cannot support FBS ball.

The sad part is that the lure of FBS ball could eventually fracture and destroy the Valley. With that, I propose another option, and I'm simply throwing out ideas here. What if the MVC were to absorb football entirely and allow all conference members the option of playing football in the MVC or opting out of football. This is hard to explain, but a hybrid of the Big East. 16 teams, all must have 14 sports including men's and women's basketball. Football is not mandatory, but if you participate in football, unlike the Big East, you still are not bound to compete in the MVC. Structure the league where 8 or 10 teams play FBS ball in the Valley, the rest play in another FCS conference, Pioneer ball or do not play football at all.

I could see this as a viable option for the Valley to keep the programs that are currently planning to jump to FBS, at the same time, allowing all Valley schools the option of what level they wish to play. If only three current Valley schools choose to make the jump, the Valley could still add six schools, five of which want to play FBS, one that doesn't, and keep everyone else at their present level of football participation. This would even be a great back door option for Wichita State to reinstate football. It would also make the Valley very desirable to schools that wish to play in the FBS. A destination conference, if you will, for all of the large "midmajors", teams that want to compete at that level but have nowhere to go. The Valley could pick and choose. That type of expansion would also be able to vault the Valley back into basketball prominence.

Knock the idea or not, I'm just throwing stuff out there. It might not work, but at least I'm throwing out ideas. It beats no ideas at all.

[jwa123]

I like your idea but I still have concerns that a new FBS conference can be formed out of thin air with the current NCAA rules on conferences. Nonetheless let's assume I am wrong and that indeed the MVC/MVFC could be the genesis of such a conference, who are the 3 or 4 current teams in the league that could make that jump? First to mind is Missouri State and Illinois State. Definitely at least one of the Dakotas but does everyone else in the league agree to them for all sports including BB? Perhaps the next best candidates within the current league would be SIU & UNI but I'm not sure the latter could pull it off. Actually, I'm not sure Missouri State or Illinois State can pull it off without big changes because UNI as an FCS school routinely kicks both of our butts.

Who would be the other FCS candidates in the neighborhood but not at this juncture in either MVC/MVFC be? I am drawing a blank. I've read some current MAC schools can't really afford FBS and could be candidates in the future to downgrade to FCS but they then would not be interested in a new FBS conference otherwise they'd stay where they are. However, would this leave some MAC schools like Northern Illinois in a conference with no one geographically close to them? How solid is the Sunbelt and would an Arkansas State, Western Ky, &/or MTSU be candidates someday for a different FBS conference? Do I dare even think about the Big 12 (-2) & it's remainders after it's eventual bust up or will all of you laugh me off the forum? How far does this go before the footprint becomes both unwieldy and expensive?

If some iteration of the Valley became involved with FBS, I am thinking other FBS schools might be a stronger option than other FCS schools.

Interesting thought Mr John, I look forward to seeing what others think.

[MoValley John]

I don't think that there are any Valley members that can currently afford to move up. With that, there are a few, if they formulated a solid plan, that could. Missouri State and Illinois State. UNI could not. Southern Illinois, if they worked really hard, possibly could.

A conservative guess as to how much more money it would take for a team to make the jump is $3-5 million a year. I honestly have no idea of what teams like Indiana State could afford, probably not even close, I may be wrong. The other piece of the puzzle is how much more money could be generated simply by jumping to FBS. With a larger audience, sponsorship money is sure to increase, as should ticket revenue. And while I'm not a big advocate of buy games, there is considerably more "buy" money paid for FBS schools for a game than what BCS teams pay FCS teams- it is more than double. There would be more revenue, the question is, would the revenue equal or exceed the expense. And if push came to shove, could three or four athletics programs in the Valley increase their budgets by $5 mill? I don't know. I do know that none of these schools are going to increase their revenue much doing the same thing, over and over again.

Here's another wild arse idea. A tv contract. Currently, there simply isn't any more room for another conference unless something creative was worked out. While not ideal, 8:00 AM on Saturday is wide open. Depending on how much money could be generated, would the fans of those schools be willing to show up early for games? I don't know, but this sounds good to me- Gameday on ESPN and the Valley game of the week on the Deuce. When I'm tailgating on Saturdays, we always have Gameday on, as well as, whatever game is on Fox or another network. Usually, the first live action is at 11:00, that leaves 8:00 AM wide open. If the Valley were serious and willing to play an early game, some sort of contract might be able to be worked out, and if so, I can guarantee you that football starved people would watch.

Like I have said, I don't think that there are any programs that are currently in the position to make a move, but I think there are some, given a five year, serious plan, could position themselves for the move. As for outside the MVFC, schools that might be interested in playing Valley FBS football, Tulsa, Wichita State (if they were to bring it back) ND State and a few MAC schools. You could probably find ten without stretching the footprint too much. And if the Valley raised its profile and was an FBS conference that allowed basketball only members, you might get interest from Butler and SLU. Who knows? I'm just throwing out wild ideas.

[Haha]

What did SIU average attendance wise last year?

I would think facility wise they would be the closest as of right now. Just wondering if they have solid fan support, think they do but don't know. Hoping an SIU fan could chime in. I know money wise is a completely different story.

Also what did UNO average for football? Could CU pick up some of those fans with a football team. I ask because they average a great deal of fans for basketball so why couldn't they average a descent amount for some sort of football? This is the same thing I wonder about WSU. Why couldn't they both average 15K for 5-6 games a year at FCS level? I know WSU struggled before attendance wise. However Wichita metro area probably has grown another 25% in the last 25 years and college football has increased in popularity as well or at least in my head it has. If either school got to the point of actually winning (not saying thats easy so calm down everybody, just saying if) I think it's fan base would really take off.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Also what did UNO average for football?

Significantly less than 5K per game. There were times that there were literally only hundreds in attendance. UNO dropped football because they were losing their ass.

[jwa123]

Do you think Tulsa would leave C-USA?

[unipanther99]

Do you think Tulsa would leave C-USA?

I think they would, but not to join the MVC. Their football team would need a home.

[MoValley John]

Do you think Tulsa would leave C-USA?

I think they would, but not to join the MVC. Their football team would need a home.

This is all under the imagined scenario of the Valley moving to FBS, a tv contract, sponsorships and a few other football schools joining. Under those conditions, I think Tulsa would take a serious look. Under those conditions, I could see a lot of schools taking a look. If the Big XII implodes, Iowa State could be one of them.