WSU next year

[agrinut]

Remind me how the Final Four tastes again.

I love hearing so much trash talking coming from fans of the single worst Valley team last year. I didn't think anyone could take that trophy off SIU; so, congrats?

You struggle with facts don't you. I think WSU should win the league next year but you name you dollar amount they don't run away with the league (2 games or more).

[glm38]

I think the Shox will be close to a consensus pick to win the Valley. They appear to be loaded. But will they win it? Its just not a given even with Marshall at the helm. With so many new faces CHEMISTRY is the big concern IMO.

They (WSU) obviously got past that hurdle last year but that hasn't always been the case. Several seasons ago (the years Dursley was there) I thought the shox were the deepest and most talented team in the Valley but team chemistry appeared to suck much of the time. Not picking on Dursley by the way just using him as a point of reference.

I 'll pick the Shox to win the Valley. But I don't think they'll run away with it. And I think we 'll see a surprise team in the top 3. Like ISUr or MSU.

I think that would be a fair point if true, but there are only two "new faces" on our two-deep at any position. Our backup PG (whichever of the two doesn't RS) and either Carter or Watson, whichever is #2 at the 4.

I really don't know how chemistry is supposed to be a major stumbling block when eight of our top 10 players were on the team last year.

Is there any team in the conference that doesn't have four new players coming in next year? WSU isn't exactly relying on them.

Certainly it remains to be seen how Coleby, Lufile, and Wiggins fit into the team in larger roles, but they were on the team last year. If they're the ones you're considering as "new faces," that is certainly a legitimate criticism. But, again, is there any team in the conference that doesn't have a situation where a few players that played sparingly last year are going to be stepping into the two deep?

Exactly. Coleby, Lufile and Wiggins aren't entirely new players. But their role last year was pretty small. They don't have to learn the system but other than that they still have a lot of adjusting to do.

You are right there isn't a team in the Valley that doesn't have a lot of changes. But that's just it. We never know how that's going to play out do we? Sometimes changes work out great and sometimes it's a struggle. I'd say if you had a really strong leader back (like Carl Hall seemed to be) then it would be much more of a lock that everything meshes. Maybe Baker is that leader? But I don't think you can conclusively say that until he or someone else steps up. It certainly helps that you have a coach like Marshall. But even the coach K's and Pitinos have down years when they least expect it sometimes.

To me this discussion/pissing match is a lot about nothing. All the non WSU fans seem to agree the Shockers are loaded and will more than likely win the conference. Most of us just think it will be more competitive than most of you (Shockers fans) do.

[IllinoisState]

Your first team didn't win the league last year..... I would say the shockers haven't met that expectation yet. Remind me how Kangaroo balls taste again.

Nothing gets them going faster than only having them post about how good their team is and how no other team can do anything. They enjoy patting themselves on the back for everything including what they haven't done.

[rlh04d]

Remind me how the Final Four tastes again.

I love hearing so much trash talking coming from fans of the single worst Valley team last year. I didn't think anyone could take that trophy off SIU; so, congrats?

You struggle with facts don't you. I think WSU should win the league next year but you name you dollar amount they don't run away with the league (2 games or more).

Which fact do I struggle with?

WSU made the Final Four last year?

Or any of these stats that show MoSt was the worst Valley team last year:
That Missouri State only won one road game in conference last year?
Only two all season? Neither against a team that finished better than .500?
Missouri State's 11-22 record was by far the worst in the conference last year?
Missouri State's 204 RPI was by far the worst in the conference last year?
Missouri State's 233 non-con RPI was by far the worst in the conference last year?
Missouri State's -7.5 scoring margin was by far the worst from a Valley team last year?
... in fact it was not only the worst by far, but it was more than DOUBLE the second worse, SIU with -3.1?
Missouri State had the worst record against the top 100 RPI of any Valley team last year?
Missouri State didn't win a single game in the nonconference against a D1 team?
Missouri State went 1-8 against the top 5 teams in conference last year, losing by an average of nearly 14 points?

Which fact is incorrect in your mind? Don't challenge facts and then try to change the subject. Which fact is incorrect? Or is Missouri State really THAT pathetic?

You struggle with logical counterarguments or what the definition of a "fact" is, don't you?

[rlh04d]

Your first team didn't win the league last year..... I would say the shockers haven't met that expectation yet. Remind me how Kangaroo balls taste again.

Nothing gets them going faster than only having them post about how good their team is and how no other team can do anything. They enjoy patting themselves on the back for everything including what they haven't done.

And nothing gets you posting like people attacking WSU.

*Edit: Apparently only a third of your posts are attacking WSU. You're not as trollish as I thought.

[rlh04d]

Exactly. Coleby, Lufile and Wiggins aren't entirely new players. But their role last year was pretty small. They don't have to learn the system but other than that they still have a lot of adjusting to do.

You are right there isn't a team in the Valley that doesn't have a lot of changes. But that's just it. We never know how that's going to play out do we? Sometimes changes work out great and sometimes it's a struggle. I'd say if you had a really strong leader back (like Carl Hall seemed to be) then it would be much more of a lock that everything meshes. Maybe Baker is that leader? But I don't think you can conclusively say that until he or someone else steps up. It certainly helps that you have a coach like Marshall. But even the coach K's and Pitinos have down years when they least expect it sometimes.

To me this discussion/pissing match is a lot about nothing. All the non WSU fans seem to agree the Shockers are loaded and will more than likely win the conference. Most of us just think it will be more competitive than most of you (Shockers fans) do.

I don't see a problem with any of that.

I think the problem WSU fans have with all of this is this exact same thing was said about us last season. AND the season before that. Going into last season we lost five of our top six scorers. The season before that we lost four starters from the team that won the NIT. Of course we have questions, but we have FAR less questions than either of the two previous seasons. At what point do we get the benefit of the doubt for answering those questions every year? No team in this conference has been able to do what WSU has done with that level of turnover the last two seasons, but yet much of this thread has been pointing out questions about WSU, despite being a program that has proven to be able to overcome those questions, and dismissing the questions with other programs that have in NO way proven the ability to overcome those questions.

Yes, which Shocker steps up as the leader remains to be seen. But remember that Carl Hall wasn't the leader going into last season; he wasn't even a starter. It's not like we lost a four year leader; we lost a one year starter. The same goes for Armstead.

Who cares what we think the level of competitiveness is? WSU's going to be a unanimous preseason favorite. At this point it's all just speculation, and it'll be decided on the court soon enough.

I'm personally predicting a 27-4 regular season for WSU next year, if healthy. I don't care where the losses come from; we could lose four in conference and Missouri State could somehow go undefeated and win the conference and it wouldn't bother me. We've been better every season under Marshall, and I don't see any reason to think that'll change. Meanwhile I don't see any way that the Valley will not be taking a significant step back next season. I'm focused on us getting to the NCAA tournament, and I really don't care who wins the Valley next season.

[rlh04d]

Losing by 10 is "pretty competitive" ? In three games we won by a combined 49 points. We have different opinions on what "competitive" means, apparently. I consider a double-digit loss to be outside of that category.

Interesting how far above their season averages guys like White and Wiggins played against you.

I think both games would have been considered competitive by most people watching or at the games. Yes the final score in both was a ten point deficit. But both were closer than that going into the final few minutes. I remember after both games taking a look at Shockernet and there were a lot of nervous WSU fans and also some grudging admiration for the young Bears.

What does White and Lufile playing well in those games mean? Big deal. Thurman lit up Early in the game here too.

Not that they were playing well. That they were playing significant minutes. In the tournament game, White and Wiggins were playing over 20 minutes, which those two rarely did outside of blowouts -- we were resting players for the Creighton game.

I think MoSt has a few good, young players. Not denying that. I also think you were the worst team in the conference last year, though -- your average margin of worse than -7 throughout the season is atrocious, but you at least played a good SOS. SIU had a win over us last season; I don't think only losing to us by 10 is a bragging point.

I also think you're exaggerating the "last few minutes." In both of those games you guys were fairly competitive with us until we broke the game open in the final 10-15 minutes of the game. However, we were also missing two starters for one of those games, and one for the other, while choosing to give deep bench players a lot of minutes because we didn't consider it a real game. And we still won both games by double digits.

[Wufan]

Where was Carter even mentioned, but if you want the difference between Carter and Gulley, it's pretty simple; how many points or rebounds has Carter gotten at the D-1 level compared to Gulley who already showed he can perform at that level.

When you stated that WSU might exhibit chemistry issues on the interior, you dismissed Carter (IMO). There's nothing wrong with that opinion, but you turn around and tell us about Addo and some of the other new Bears, which I find confusing as to your point. Are the Bears players better than the Shockers players, or are you emotionally blinded by the team you root for? I tried to use Gulley as an example as to why Carter might be better than you expected. I felt it was a better example of what the Shockers interior might be capable of, and one that you could relate too.

[shoxrox]

Nothing gets them going faster than only having them post about how good their team is and how no other team can do anything. They enjoy patting themselves on the back for everything including what they haven't done.

And nothing gets you posting like people attacking WSU.

Why, that's about 95% of your posts, troll.

That one is about as predictable as a tornado forming in Kansas. His obsession and butthurtness towards WSU tops every poster on here. He has been that way since the beginning. It hasn't added one iota worth of any sensible discussion at all whatsoever, other than showing their insecurity with WSU owning his team in every athletic sport possible this year, especially basketball. Jealousy is a bitter pill to swallow.

I really like his last sentence. What exactly hasn't WSU done?

[glm38]

RLH I don't think I'm exaggerating the last few min at all. But I'm not going to look it up. Agree to disagree I guess. And you were missing 2 starters but we were missing one too and ours was probably our best player (Gully) .

Not sure why you feel the need to continually berate the Bears. But if it makes you feel better have at it. We know we were totally wretched in the non con. But our young guys really came around in the conference and were competitive almost every game.