Bradley gives Les the boot

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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby BradleyBrave » March 8th, 2011, 9:40 pm

Ace Dad wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14724764/reading-into-one-outcome-read-this-its-all-bull

Mo, Bradley University is no more special than any other Valley team, with all due respect. Fans need to stop thinking that their Strawberry KoolAid is sweeter, tarter, and colder. Each fan loves his school, program, and team.

So, what did he fail to do, specifically?

What did he do poorly, specifically?

What does the new coach need to do, specifically?

DRUMROLL..................Win!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... s-all-bull


Why so old and bitter?

When do you drop down to the OVC?
"At some point in the near future, we're going to have a team out there competing for championships" - Geno Ford, November 9, 2011.
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby CaseyGarrisonforPrez » March 8th, 2011, 10:08 pm

BradleyBrave wrote:
Ace Dad wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14724764/reading-into-one-outcome-read-this-its-all-bull

Mo, Bradley University is no more special than any other Valley team, with all due respect. Fans need to stop thinking that their Strawberry KoolAid is sweeter, tarter, and colder. Each fan loves his school, program, and team.

So, what did he fail to do, specifically?

What did he do poorly, specifically?

What does the new coach need to do, specifically?

DRUMROLL..................Win!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... s-all-bull


Why so old and bitter?

When do you drop down to the OVC?


This whole discourse is amusing. Neither of you too is a cornerstone, both of you could realistically drop to the OVC. MSU, CU, and Wichita are the three cornerstone programs that this league depends on.

Bradley should hire Porter Moser for the record, Majerus wants him to be his successor. They might have to pay big but Porter should be the guy (ISURed ties or not).
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby Ace Dad » March 8th, 2011, 10:21 pm

Answer the questions.
There is no difference between basketball and life. Give both your best and ignore the "fans" on the sideline.
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby valleychamp » March 8th, 2011, 10:21 pm

CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:
BradleyBrave wrote:
Ace Dad wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14724764/reading-into-one-outcome-read-this-its-all-bull

Mo, Bradley University is no more special than any other Valley team, with all due respect. Fans need to stop thinking that their Strawberry KoolAid is sweeter, tarter, and colder. Each fan loves his school, program, and team.

So, what did he fail to do, specifically?

What did he do poorly, specifically?

What does the new coach need to do, specifically?

DRUMROLL..................Win!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... s-all-bull


Why so old and bitter?

When do you drop down to the OVC?


This whole discourse is amusing. Neither of you too is a cornerstone, both of you could realistically drop to the OVC. MSU, CU, and Wichita are the three cornerstone programs that this league depends on.


Yes, I don't know how we could survive without all the great things MSU has done for this conference.
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby Ace Dad » March 8th, 2011, 10:24 pm

My Big 12 buds insult a fellow Big 12 bud by saying his team should move to the MVC. I quickly correct their basketball snobbery. Nothing wrong with the OVC.
There is no difference between basketball and life. Give both your best and ignore the "fans" on the sideline.
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby MoValley John » March 8th, 2011, 11:19 pm

Bradley is not special, but lets look at Bradley. Bradoley has a very large athletic budget. Bradley is near Chicago, if you haven't noticed, Chicago is a huge media center. Illinous State is also close, but Bradley being a private university, they avoid a lot of the headaches encountered by "non-flagship" state schools. Bradley has a large endowment. Bradley continues to build first rate training facilities. Bradley has had decades upon decades of success at basketball. Bradley has put 21 players into the NBA, nobody else in the Valley is close. Nobody.

Bradley has two final fours, both losses in the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. Indiana State, Drake and Wichita State have one.

Bradley has eight NCAA appearances, 21 NIT appearances and four NIT championships. I won't mention the CBI and CIT stuff of the last few years. I guess when you really look at it, Bradley has the money, location and history and is really positioned well to be a Valley flagship. They weren't a flagship with Les.

In reality, though, you were right, what Les didn't do enough of was win. It is cynical and sad, but it's the truth. And lets face it, he was given a $400,000+ salary, adding the inducements outside of the university, it pushed his overall compensation to over $500,000. That is fourth in the league behind McDermott, Marshall and Lowery. McDermott, Marshall and Lowery have mega salaries for this type of league, so Les was the highest paid guy without a mega contract. And with that salary comes expectations (wins).

To make it simple, A 7-11 store manager doesn't make the salary of a Macy's store manager. The expectations of the Macy's manager is also much higher. A police officer in Dallas is paid much more than a police officer Rulo, Nebraska. Much more is expected of the police officer in Dallas. All the same, a basketball coach in the Valley making a half a million dollars a year better produce more than the guy making $225,000. A down year is one thing, Les had a down decade with one miracle finish splitting the two halves.

"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby MSUDuo » March 9th, 2011, 12:50 am

To be fair, much of Bradley's history came before what college basketball is now. It was a much different story back then. Plus, it is a "what have you done for me lately" world. ***Hardly anyone remembers history past 5-10.*** It can't be totally ignored but nor will it be repeated by anyone outside a Big 6 conference

I'd be curious what their history is like over the past 25 years.

***Without looking it up, can anyone name me the last 10 national champs?***
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby MoValley John » March 9th, 2011, 1:56 am

You are absolutely correct. That said, it's not that simple. While memories of national sports are short, fans of individual teams have very long memories. Creighton fans remember Red McManus, Tom Apke and Tony Barone. While it's been more than 20 years since Barone was their coach, this is one of their standard bearers. This is Creighton's standard. Wichita State fans remember Ralph Miller, Gary Thompson and Gene Smithson. This is the Wichita State standard. Less than this will not do for fans of either school.

I bet you remember Charlie Spoonhour's success at Missouir State. You remember Steve Alford, it is your standard. It is fair. Bradley fans have their standard and that includes two final fours a Sweet 16, four NIT championships, 21 NBA players and the list goes on. They are also closer to the Chicago recruiting and media hotbed than Springfield is to KC. This is their standard, it is also fair.

On another note and a big piece of being successful is what has the university done to foster success. The challenge for the university is to allot enough resources for a coach to be successful. That would include money for recruiting, equipment and quality assistants. Far too often, midmajor schools fail in this responsibility. Bradley has not. They have great everything and a huge budget. Nothing within the Bradley basketball program is second rate. They have many big dollar donors and they have high expectations. With that, they paid Jim Les a lot of money and gave him plenty of time to build a program. With the exception of 2006, when Bradley went on a late season run, Jim Les failed to make the MVC finals and 2006 included, he never finished above 4th place. All the while, he was paid a salary higher than all but three other schools. For the donors and the fans, this was too little bang for the buck.

I am really not an advocate of the escallating salaries in college sports, but the current economic situation is a fact. In a midmajor conference, we can pretend that salaries don't dictate expectations, but they do. If you choose to pay a coach too little, as soon as they have success, they bolt. Schools like Bradley pay more. They demand good coaches and pay enough that the coach doesnrt leave at the first offer out of town. The high salaries have to be paid by somebody and that somebody is the big donors. The big donors have the ear and full attention of the administration and the big donors at Bradley were fed up with fourth place. They became unglued with 10th place.

At a half a million a year, plus a buyout expected of over $600,000, Jim Les isn't hurting. As I have said, Jim Les is a good guy, I liked him, but he didn't meet the expectations of a half a million dollar salary. I also agree with AceDad, the firing of Jim Les could start a coaching carousel, but that is the risk that the boosters at Bradley are willing to take. They will hire and fire until they get their guy. Fair or unfair, ugly or not, this is the way life works in D-1 athletics; it works that way even outside of basketball.
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby Ace Dad » March 9th, 2011, 7:05 am

MoValley, good responses. I will stop kicking the dog.

BradleyBrave, work on your basketball snobbery, it is not becoming ;)
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Re: Bradley gives Les the boot

Postby chitown fanatic » March 9th, 2011, 7:59 am

AceDad, when Evansville can produce even a quarter of what Bradley has accomplished over its history, please let me know. Its not snobbery, it's factual, and while this former flagship team has sunk to an Evansville-like low this year, we will be back because unlike you, we have more than 27 fans who show up to watch games and have the financial means to do what we just did. Yes, I know you're jealous of that, but the history speaks for itself. MVJ, very nice and accurate job of describing Bradley's past and present. I couldnt have agreed more.
I look forward to more laughable Acedad posts defending every coach ad nauseum or telling me what its like in the real world.
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