Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[ReZyNeZy]

I’m going to have to assume you were joking (and insist on you not doing that moving forward if you expect to have a serious conversation) when you say that decreased
Affordability is due to rising costs of the college itself.

Why would that be a joke? People cannot afford college because college has become too expensive for most to afford. Especially when we are talking about a sports conference that has a large portion of its constituents in the private sector and cannot stipend tuition and fees with state money. 60k to attend UE, Valpo, Belmont the list goes on and on. Even after financial aid, these institutions dont even go under the 20k mark for total cost. You expect a kid to take out loans and then pay 20k? Its not feasible. Even with offered scholarships this usually leaves the student to foot the bill for about 10k. Going back to 2010, Evansville's tuition was 26k. Fast foreword 13 years, and that tuition has almost doubled to 40k. So yes, college is getting too expensive, especially in the private sector.

[Aces44]

I’m going to have to assume you were joking (and insist on you not doing that moving forward if you expect to have a serious conversation) when you say that decreased
Affordability is due to rising costs of the college itself.

Why would that be a joke? People cannot afford college because college has become too expensive for most to afford. Especially when we are talking about a sports conference that has a large portion of its constituents in the private sector and cannot stipend tuition and fees with state money. 60k to attend UE, Valpo, Belmont the list goes on and on. Even after financial aid, these institutions dont even go under the 20k mark for total cost. You expect a kid to take out loans and then pay 20k? Its not feasible. Even with offered scholarships this usually leaves the student to foot the bill for about 10k. Going back to 2010, Evansville's tuition was 26k. Fast foreword 13 years, and that tuition has almost doubled to 40k. So yes, college is getting too expensive, especially in the private sector.

Who is in charge of setting and controlling those costs?

I find your disingenuous rebuttal insulting.

[ReZyNeZy]

Who is in charge of setting and controlling those costs?

I find your disingenuous rebuttal insulting.

You are either purposely ignoring my words or are just too clouded to see reason. I said multiple times that presidents and boards are at fault for some, but not the majority of the issues. Too be insulted because you refused to read my statement is insulting. You claimed an enrollment cliff was entirely self creats by presidents. Myself and multiple other sources have said that that is not the case. You then asked who is the cause of unaffordablility. I said that partially this was the fault of presidents and admins, bit presidents and admins are not completely the cause of unaffordablity either! You can fault the presidents and admins for hiking up prices, but you cannot fault presidents and admins for lack of money in someone's bank account, or lack of ability to afford student loans. Like I said 2 posts ago. Please read.

[Aces44]

Who is in charge of setting and controlling those costs?

I find your disingenuous rebuttal insulting.

You are either purposely ignoring my words or are just too clouded to see reason. I said multiple times that presidents and boards are at fault for some, but not the majority of the issues. Too be insulted because you refused to read my statement is insulting. You claimed an enrollment cliff was entirely self creats by presidents. Myself and multiple other sources have said that that is not the case. You then asked who is the cause of unaffordablility. I said that partially this was the fault of presidents and admins, bit presidents and admins are not completely the cause of unaffordablity either! You can fault the presidents and admins for hiking up prices, but you cannot fault presidents and admins for lack of money in someone's bank account, or lack of ability to afford student loans. Like I said 2 posts ago. Please read.

Are you trying to be funny?

[TylerDurden]

University presidents have way more data than any of us do, and they consistently believe across the board it makes a net positive difference.

Fans don’t want it to be true because fans have different interests and priorities. But we have significantly less access to the data than they have. The odds that we know more than they do are extremely slim.

Two points to this and I'll let it go:

1. Simply look at the enrollment demographics of a school that plays in a league with a reach outside of its region. The numbers do not support the idea that kids from Chicago are enrolling at Wright State or Youngstown State, Northern Kentucky or Oakland. Same with kids from Cleveland to UIC or Green Bay or IUPUI. MVC schools are in the same boat.

2. I've worked inside of a president's office at a significant university in a major city. Unless you're in the realm of Harvard, Northwestern, Stanford, etc., or have some amazing academic program, what I've said is correct. Don't be fooled by marketing speak like, "Top represented states..." 90+% of the students come from nearby areas. Schools affiliated with religion tend to have slightly more reach, but that's pretty much limited to the top-end (Notre Dame, Georgetown, etc.).

The Presidents certainly have data, but they certainly don't use it like you'd assume they would. They create presentations and set their travel schedules accordingly.

Put another way, schools would be better off spending money on elevating a specific academic program to attract students.

[TOPSTRAIGHT]

University presidents have way more data than any of us do, and they consistently believe across the board it makes a net positive difference.

Fans don’t want it to be true because fans have different interests and priorities. But we have significantly less access to the data than they have. The odds that we know more than they do are extremely slim.

Good point.

Of course it doesn't mean that those President are Correct.

BUT--they are the ones making the decisions--and if They "believe" a certain way...then That is what they will base their decision on.

[TOPSTRAIGHT]

https://x.com/WyattWheeler_NL/status/18 ... 7969976810

Link to part of Commish interview about expansion.

[BCPanther]

I'm all for staying at 11 and dealing with the scheduling quirks that come with an uneven number (i.e. everybody is going to be stuck with a weekend bye and a 4 game week at some point in the schedule).

The inventory to the TV partners doesn't change and there is no one out there (that we're aware of) that adds enough value to split the pie for the sake of getting to 12.

In women's sports, Belmont can become the 'loner' due to the ease and expense of flying in and out of Nashville.

[Chuck A]

Commissioner Jackson said they were "always proactive"; "we kinda know what our landing point seems to be"; "I don't think the decision Missouri State made caught anybody by surprise"; "we were really fortunate a couple years ago to add 3 really strong programs from a basketball and geographical vantage point and I think that has helped us and I think the same process and the same thought process that we had during that time period still remains."

This is my analysis: The Board already knows what it wants to do; who the candidates/markets are; what the set number of teams is and what the timetable is for making the announcement.

[Chuck A]

The inventory to the TV partners doesn't change and there is no one out there (that we're aware of) that adds enough value to split the pie for the sake of getting to 12.

I think Northern Kentucky adds value. They've earned a few duckets for the Horizon League by winning the tournament title 4 of the last 7 years and going to the Dance 3 times (the other canceled by Covid).