Next year predictions

[TylerDurden]

All it does is reinforce the reach around mentality of the Valley of Even.

Yeah, because the MVc is the only conference that awards its auto-bid to the tourney champ

Obviously the Valley is not alone in this, but the Valley is one of the few conferences that has a legitimate shot at playing with the big boys on occasion. I also realize it isn't going to change because fan bases like CU and WSU are cash cows for the Valley.

I don't like the post season tourney for any of the conferences, but I do think the Valley is unique in their standing. The conference champion is almost always a team that can make noise in the dance and should rarely, if ever be excluded from the tournament.

The cash cow is NCAA Tournament bids, and that dwarfs anything that Arch Madness generates. Arch Madness doesn't pay the bills at the MVC.

The conference tournament has frequently rewarded the MVC with an additional bid it otherwise would not have received.

I think we all agree that the MVC has had some teams that have been "snubbed" by the selection committee, but it's never been the regular-season champion -- until this year. MSU just didn't have a good enough resume and neither did WSU.

Now, I think most folks on these boards knew that either team had the potential to make noise, but it wasn't the conference tournament that got them left out. It was their schedule and results.

[MoValley John]

Each and every school is responsible for building a resume worthy of an NCAA bid. Short of that, they have to use the MVC tourney as a springboard. The MVC tourney is no more, or no less important than the regular season for securing a bid. That is, unless you failed in the regular season, then it's your only shot. Don't knock the tourney.

All of this reminds me of an old Carole King ballad.

[TheShock]

Each and every school is responsible for building a resume worthy of an NCAA bid. Short of that, they have to use the MVC tourney as a springboard. The MVC tourney is no more, or no less important than the regular season for securing a bid. That is, unless you failed in the regular season, then it's your only shot. Don't knock the tourney.

All of this reminds me of an old Carole King ballad.

Check out the video... start at 1:42 if you can't stomach the entire song. Had some good times listening to this song a few moons ago. Memories!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN2ii7GARfk

[DoubleJayAlum]

The cash cow is NCAA Tournament bids, and that dwarfs anything that Arch Madness generates. Arch Madness doesn't pay the bills at the MVC.

I don't think this is accurate. I've heard Elgin say in interviews that the MVC gets 75-85% (depending on the year) of its operating budget directly from revenues received from Arch Madness. That is also the reason why conference tourneys will never go away, especially for non_BCS conferences; and why those same conferences use the tourney to give away their auto bids instead of simply giving it to the regular season champs.

I know some people here blame Elgin for the recent poor performance of the conference. Frankly, I don't get that. As commissioner, he can only exercise the power ceded to him by the members of the conference. Rest assured that there are several schools, most athletic directors and almost all coaches, who are opposed to the 150 RPI rule. The real problem is that the league as a whole just hasn't had the same level of talent the last several years as it had in 2005-2007, when we received multiple bids. Even if SOS were better, it would have only amounted in more losses for teams and, as a result, even lower RPIs. Coaching turnover and schools like SIU and Creighton trying to recruit the "next level" of recruit only to have them flame out, have really hampered the conference's talent pool. Last year's freshman class might be a sign of improvement in that talent pool, but it is tough to say whether that is a trend or simply a one year aberration.

[TylerDurden]

The cash cow is NCAA Tournament bids, and that dwarfs anything that Arch Madness generates. Arch Madness doesn't pay the bills at the MVC.

I don't think this is accurate. I've heard Elgin say in interviews that the MVC gets 75-85% (depending on the year) of its operating budget directly from revenues received from Arch Madness. That is also the reason why conference tourneys will never go away, especially for non_BCS conferences; and why those same conferences use the tourney to give away their auto bids instead of simply giving it to the regular season champs.

I know some people here blame Elgin for the recent poor performance of the conference. Frankly, I don't get that. As commissioner, he can only exercise the power ceded to him by the members of the conference. Rest assured that there are several schools, most athletic directors and almost all coaches, who are opposed to the 150 RPI rule. The real problem is that the league as a whole just hasn't had the same level of talent the last several years as it had in 2005-2007, when we received multiple bids. Even if SOS were better, it would have only amounted in more losses for teams and, as a result, even lower RPIs. Coaching turnover and schools like SIU and Creighton trying to recruit the "next level" of recruit only to have them flame out, have really hampered the conference's talent pool. Last year's freshman class might be a sign of improvement in that talent pool, but it is tough to say whether that is a trend or simply a one year aberration.

I think you have his quotes confused. That percentage comes from the NCAA Tournament revenues.

“We need to be cognizant of the linkage between good, strong non-conference schedules and being in the hunt for at-large bids,” Elgin said. “We do have to keep an eye on what it’s going to take for the league to get back to a point where it’s considered one of the top eight leagues in the nation.”

Elgin recognizes it’s easy for him to urge for tougher opponents from the safety of St. Louis. It’s the coaches who put their jobs on the line. There needs to be a realization that bad schedules hurt the entire MVC and that smart, aggressive scheduling can help. NCAA Tournament revenues provide about 70 percent of the conference budget.

Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2011/03/05/174943 ... z1OVgd3com

[Snapshot9]

Seems to me that our league operates almost in a Catch-22 situation. The bottom half of the league teams are the only ones that a tough opponent will schedule (and knowing they will beat them), while the top half of the league can not get the tough opponents scheduled because the opponents are afraid that they might get beat.

Now, the bottom half of the league has no chance to make the big dance, and the top half of the league ends up not having the resume to make the dance. Now, it is easy to say to schedule tougher opponents, but if those tougher opponents won't cooperate, it just keeps our league where it is now.

[DoubleJayAlum]

The cash cow is NCAA Tournament bids, and that dwarfs anything that Arch Madness generates. Arch Madness doesn't pay the bills at the MVC.

I don't think this is accurate. I've heard Elgin say in interviews that the MVC gets 75-85% (depending on the year) of its operating budget directly from revenues received from Arch Madness. That is also the reason why conference tourneys will never go away, especially for non_BCS conferences; and why those same conferences use the tourney to give away their auto bids instead of simply giving it to the regular season champs.

I know some people here blame Elgin for the recent poor performance of the conference. Frankly, I don't get that. As commissioner, he can only exercise the power ceded to him by the members of the conference. Rest assured that there are several schools, most athletic directors and almost all coaches, who are opposed to the 150 RPI rule. The real problem is that the league as a whole just hasn't had the same level of talent the last several years as it had in 2005-2007, when we received multiple bids. Even if SOS were better, it would have only amounted in more losses for teams and, as a result, even lower RPIs. Coaching turnover and schools like SIU and Creighton trying to recruit the "next level" of recruit only to have them flame out, have really hampered the conference's talent pool. Last year's freshman class might be a sign of improvement in that talent pool, but it is tough to say whether that is a trend or simply a one year aberration.

I think you have his quotes confused. That percentage comes from the NCAA Tournament revenues.

“We need to be cognizant of the linkage between good, strong non-conference schedules and being in the hunt for at-large bids,” Elgin said. “We do have to keep an eye on what it’s going to take for the league to get back to a point where it’s considered one of the top eight leagues in the nation.”

Elgin recognizes it’s easy for him to urge for tougher opponents from the safety of St. Louis. It’s the coaches who put their jobs on the line. There needs to be a realization that bad schedules hurt the entire MVC and that smart, aggressive scheduling can help. NCAA Tournament revenues provide about 70 percent of the conference budget.

Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2011/03/05/174943 ... z1OVgd3com

Wow, that link is completely the opposite of what I've heard Elgin say in the past. I did note that in the article, that isn't a direct quote of Elgin, but instead a comment added by the author. Nevertheless, I know that from 2005-2007, the conference made a ton of money at the MVC tourney. I guess it is possible that has changed due to teams with much smaller fanbases having recent success (UNI, Drake, InSU). I know that ticket sales at the tourney have been way, way down from their peak in 2007 when the semifinals sold out all together, despite all sorts of promotions for discounts.

[valleychamp]

Arch madness attendance is not "way, way" down. It is pretty much on par with where it has been for most of the last decade, if you throw out that crazy 2007 year. 2007 was a perfect storm type of year.

Year Attend/Session
2010 10,323
2009 10,880
2008 12,910
2007 17,015
2006 12,748
2005 10,668
2004 10,007
2003 12,401


The demise of SIU has largely contributed to the slight drop in numbers. Their attendance in STL the last two years has probably been 1/8 of what it was in the mid 2000's.

[Red]

The trend line was up from 2004 to 2007, and has been down ever since. Going from 17k to 10k in a couple of years probably constitutes "way down" in the world of sales.

[TylerDurden]

Wow, that link is completely the opposite of what I've heard Elgin say in the past. I did note that in the article, that isn't a direct quote of Elgin, but instead a comment added by the author. Nevertheless, I know that from 2005-2007, the conference made a ton of money at the MVC tourney. I guess it is possible that has changed due to teams with much smaller fanbases having recent success (UNI, Drake, InSU). I know that ticket sales at the tourney have been way, way down from their peak in 2007 when the semifinals sold out all together, despite all sorts of promotions for discounts.

Arch Madness is a successful event, but it's not a cash cow -- even in the exceptionally good year of 2007. It never has been close to 70% of revenue for the MVC.

I think it's common for him to talk about the two topics in the same interview, and maybe that's where the confusion is coming from.

See question 6. http://www.examiner.com/bradley-braves- ... doug-elgin

From 2007 Media day: http://slog.cstv.com/hangtime/2007/10/t ... .html#more