Wichita State vs Temple

[MSUDuo]

Never tried to say their comments were sensible or fair, just pointed out you engaged in the same behavior you just lectured others about. Not big on playing the bait game either. Have a good night, hope the Shockers rebound in upcoming games as they still have the opportunity to build a decent noncon record.

Fair enough. Just remember now not to get your panties in a tif if I lob a fastball during one of your inevitable stumbles. I think the SIU/Ohio Dominican game is the only thread on here in which I've taken some shots at a Valley team. I think they were more justified in there than the snide comments made in a thread with WSU losing a game in OT to Temple as underdogs. I don't think you're quite getting the correlation, but whatever..

Whether you were underdogs or not isn't the point. A Valley favorite is expected to win this game, even more so when you lead by 3 with less than a minute to go. You guys (WSU fans) bring that upon yourself (holier than thou attitude) and Valley fans have followed suit in those expectations.

Something tells me that you would hold other teams to that same standard if they were Valley favorite and rightfully so!

If you are picked to finish in the top half of the Valley, you are expected to perform well out of conference and when you repeatedly don't, you're going to get some flack. MO State got it last year and again, rightfully so. We had our chances and didn't get it done and look where it got us.

A team picked to finish 6th in the Valley is expected to go through tough times. If they don't, great. They are better than expected. If they do, eh no biggie, that's what people expected.

I do get what you are saying Baller and am not trying to pile on. Turned out to be a terrible tournament based on how it finished and if WSU doesn't get the 4 against UNLV, Utah State, Tulsa, and UAB, you can kiss an at-large chance goodbye more than likely. But there is still time and hopefully GM can get his act together.

[WSUbballer]

So as a Valley contender, it doesn't matter if we're underdogs or not? So if we were playing Duke or Alabama, we were expected victories out of those games. Really Duo?

And please point out the "holier than thou attitude" WSU fans have had here. I actually think we've done pretty well holding back that garbage on this board as of late. As a matter of fact, I think most WSU fans have been rightfully making this conference as Creighton's one to win. You're gonna have to show me specifics because I just don't see it.

I don't care much about others talking about the loss, it was dumb and stupid. I expect that. The thing that ticked me off is you have PeKaph making a remark that doesn't even make sense "SOS killer"? What the hell does that mean? and that he CONSTANTLY trolls WSU threads after losses. That has not happened by me or a lot of WSU fans in quite a while. Why? Because it's the rules. I don't think it's very fair letting an MSU fan get away with it either.

If I remember right, I don't think there have been any WSU fans clamoring for Top 25 consideration or anything crazy this year on this site.

[valleychamp]

So as a Valley contender, it doesn't matter if we're underdogs or not? So if we were playing Duke or Alabama, we were expected victories out of those games. Really Duo?

I think you know quite well the point that he was making...

This was the type of game that was extremely winnable, and it is a game that the top of the Valley should win at least a majority of the time.

[MSUDuo]

So as a Valley contender, it doesn't matter if we're underdogs or not? So if we were playing Duke or Alabama, we were expected victories out of those games. Really Duo?

And please point out the "holier than thou attitude" WSU fans have had here. I actually think we've done pretty well holding back that garbage on this board as of late. As a matter of fact, I think most WSU fans have been rightfully making this conference as Creighton's one to win. You're gonna have to show me specifics because I just don't see it.

I don't care much about others talking about the loss, it was dumb and stupid. I expect that. The thing that ticked me off is you have PeKaph making a remark that doesn't even make sense "SOS killer"? What the hell does that mean? and that he CONSTANTLY trolls WSU threads after losses. That has not happened by me or a lot of WSU fans in quite a while. Why? Because it's the rules. I don't think it's very fair letting an MSU fan get away with it either.

If I remember right, I don't think there have been any WSU fans clamoring for Top 25 consideration or anything crazy this year on this site.

You know what I meant Baller. You were underdogs by 2. This wasn't Duke. It wasn't KU. It was Temple. We're talking about this game. Not some mythical matchup.

Did I say it was just this year? Or just here? You have a board called ShockNet that non-WSU do read. Your fans aren't limited to MVCFans.com and there is a whole history of ValleyTalk as well...

You're right. I have no clue what he was trying to say...

Nobody said you had been. But again, you are expected to contend for the Valley, then you will be expected to lead the Valley out of conference and WSU hasn't done a good job of it. And again, I would expect you to hold other teams to that standard if they were expected to contend for the Valley (I'm looking at you ISUb, CU, and UNI)

[jackwagon]

So as a Valley contender, it doesn't matter if we're underdogs or not? So if we were playing Duke or Alabama, we were expected victories out of those games. Really Duo?

And please point out the "holier than thou attitude" WSU fans have had here. I actually think we've done pretty well holding back that garbage on this board as of late. As a matter of fact, I think most WSU fans have been rightfully making this conference as Creighton's one to win. You're gonna have to show me specifics because I just don't see it.

I don't care much about others talking about the loss, it was dumb and stupid. I expect that. The thing that ticked me off is you have PeKaph making a remark that doesn't even make sense "SOS killer"? What the hell does that mean? and that he CONSTANTLY trolls WSU threads after losses. That has not happened by me or a lot of WSU fans in quite a while. Why? Because it's the rules. I don't think it's very fair letting an MSU fan get away with it either.

If I remember right, I don't think there have been any WSU fans clamoring for Top 25 consideration or anything crazy this year on this site.

You know what I meant Baller. You were underdogs by 2. This wasn't Duke. It wasn't KU. It was Temple. We're talking about this game. Not some mythical matchup.

Did I say it was just this year? Or just here? You have a board called ShockNet that non-WSU do read. Your fans aren't limited to MVCFans.com and there is a whole history of ValleyTalk as well...

You're right. I have no clue what he was trying to say...

Nobody said you had been. But again, you are expected to contend for the Valley, then you will be expected to lead the Valley out of conference and WSU hasn't done a good job of it. And again, I would expect you to hold other teams to that standard if they were expected to contend for the Valley (I'm looking at you ISUb, CU, and UNI)

This is a man who gets it. If you want to parade around as one of the big shots in the valley you gotta back it up from time to time. I dont think a win over Temple when you have a lead under a minute is too much to ask. Wichita can bounce back and be a good team come march but that will not help the valley get multiple bids come tourney time. Winning now is what does that.

[Khan4Cats]

So as a Valley contender, it doesn't matter if we're underdogs or not? So if we were playing Duke or Alabama, we were expected victories out of those games. Really Duo?

And please point out the "holier than thou attitude" WSU fans have had here. I actually think we've done pretty well holding back that garbage on this board as of late. As a matter of fact, I think most WSU fans have been rightfully making this conference as Creighton's one to win. You're gonna have to show me specifics because I just don't see it.

I don't care much about others talking about the loss, it was dumb and stupid. I expect that. The thing that ticked me off is you have PeKaph making a remark that doesn't even make sense "SOS killer"? What the hell does that mean? and that he CONSTANTLY trolls WSU threads after losses. That has not happened by me or a lot of WSU fans in quite a while. Why? Because it's the rules. I don't think it's very fair letting an MSU fan get away with it either.

If I remember right, I don't think there have been any WSU fans clamoring for Top 25 consideration or anything crazy this year on this site.

You know what I meant Baller. You were underdogs by 2. This wasn't Duke. It wasn't KU. It was Temple. We're talking about this game. Not some mythical matchup.

Did I say it was just this year? Or just here? You have a board called ShockNet that non-WSU do read. Your fans aren't limited to MVCFans.com and there is a whole history of ValleyTalk as well...

You're right. I have no clue what he was trying to say...

Nobody said you had been. But again, you are expected to contend for the Valley, then you will be expected to lead the Valley out of conference and WSU hasn't done a good job of it. And again, I would expect you to hold other teams to that standard if they were expected to contend for the Valley (I'm looking at you ISUb, CU, and UNI)

I generally agree except the last part about expecting too much out of UNI. CU, WSU, ISUb-Absolutely. But UNI, MSU, and UE are all lumped in the next batch together. I think at least one of them will push up into the top group, but am not ready to name UNI as that team right now. UNI will be up and down the early part of the season as we start two true freshman and only have 1 senior and 4 juniors on the roster, and our sophomore that plays, played as a true freshman last year. Not exactly an experienced team that should be expected to win tough early games.

As for WSU, I think its disappointing that they weren't able to get a second win in Puerto Rico. It would have been big for them when it comes March if the committee is comparing resumes. They have a few more chances at quality wins though, so they can recover. The win over a top A-10 team would have been very nice for the Valley as a whole as we don't get a lot of head-to-head chances with that conference.

I think the question remains, and I brought it up earlier this summer, can WSU win the close games? They seem to be very good when they get up on a team at burying them, but they also seem to struggle when a team can force them into a possession by possession game with decision making and clutch plays. Just an observation from an outsider.

[omahaben]

So as a Valley contender, it doesn't matter if we're underdogs or not? So if we were playing Duke or Alabama, we were expected victories out of those games. Really Duo?

You were underdogs the way Creighton was technically the underdog to Iowa. That may have been what the money said, but that's a tough one to lose if you want an at-large bid.

[jayball]

Very surprising to see WSU lose with Garrett's stat line. I didn't get to watch the game, but I figured anytime WSU established an inside groove they would dominate. However, it looks like the 3s and FTs were not falling.
Was it bad shot selection/good defense from Temple or just an off night?

Murry, Smith, and Hall (on the glass) seem like pretty dependable guys. Although sometimes Murry tries to do everything himself. Stutz is a really good post when he can stay on the court. Kyles and Williams seem inconsistent.

Ragland seems like the key to making it work and he hasn't started off well. Any Shocker fans have ideas why? Part of it could be playing a really good team like Alabama. But he only played 19 minutes against Temple. That seems like a pretty big factor in yesterdays loss.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Baller is right; there really isn't any need to pile it on when a team loses. A little trash talk before a game is one thing, but no need to turn the knife when people are already upset.

That being said, I don't see anything in this thread that is half as bad as Hubert Davis and the other announcer openly laughing at WSU's decision making at the end of the overtime period. That was humiliating.

[Haha]

I didn't get the laughing at the end. The spread was 6 with about 5 seconds left when Murry got the ball. Looked like he was going to jack a 3 and then a couple guys converged. Point being it didn't matter if he shot the 3 or not, the game was over. Who cares if Davis laughed or not, the fat red head just laughed cause he does whatever Davis does.

Now onto the game...Make more than 50% of your free throws and cut out 1 or 2 bone headed plays and the game never makes it to OT. WSU gave that game to Temple no way around it. The nice passing and working the ball around came to a complete stop in PR. Completely different from what I saw at end of last year and at the CSU game this year. It's like everybody was trying to do their own thing. No excuses, they blew this chance.

I do feel good about this team if they just start making FT like they have proven to in the past and cut out a few of the REALLY stupid plays. Like instead of just passing ahead to Kyles for an easy 2 Murry tries for the ally from just across half court (4pt swing). Or like WSU's entire team collapsing on the center with less than a minute left and up by 3 giving the owls a wide open 3 to tie. Or Murry jacking up that 3 at end of regulation and 15 or so seconds still on the shot clock (they are lucky they didn't lose in regulation due to that). Twice in that game I saw the ball passed to the wing and it go right thru the players hands and out of bounds, just lazy.